Changing to manual hubs

[KChurch86]

While doing some other front end work, I found that both my auto hubs are broken. The splined ring in both hubs is cracked into 2 pieces, but they're still intact in that they don't fall out of place. Pretty sure I know the answer, but just to clarify:

I can drive 2wd without worry, but shouldn't engage 4wd, right?


Also, what do you guys recommend for manual hubs? I've read more bad than good experiences with Mile Marker hubs. I've read Warn hubs are good/great, but that you shouldn't use the studs and should instead replace them with bolts like on the OE units.

What other options are there? I see CourtesyParts carries these manual hubs ( http://www.courtesyparts.com/40250-...terra-wd22-2000-2004-p-580334.html?cPath=532& ), but I'm not sure if they're any stronger than an aftermarket application would be.

I know a few guys run manual hubs from a '93-'94 Hardbody, but they're hard to find, and I'm not feeling up to the task of a wild goose chase; so I'm dismissing this as an option.

What are you opinions on this?

 

[NismoFire]

Yes, you can drive it, but do not engage 4WD.



I was going to suggest Hardbody hubs, but I see that you're not going to go that route.

I had a set of Warn lockers on my 97 Hardbody that were already on the truck when I bought it. I had a 94 HB that still had the factory hubs, and both sets worked fine. I wheeled the piss out of my 94, but not so much my 97. I did pull an F250 out of a mud hole by the lake with my 97 and she never complained.


I would certainly stay away from the MM hubs. Ask Luke about them. Warn would be my choice, out of the ones given. My first choice would be the HB hubs.

 

[KChurch86]

Yes, you can drive it, but do not engage 4WD.



I was going to suggest Hardbody hubs, but I see that you're not going to go that route.

I had a set of Warn lockers on my 97 Hardbody that were already on the truck when I bought it. I had a 94 HB that still had the factory hubs, and both sets worked fine. I wheeled the piss out of my 94, but not so much my 97. I did pull an F250 out of a mud hole by the lake with my 97 and she never complained.


I would certainly stay away from the MM hubs. Ask Luke about them. Warn would be my choice, out of the ones given. My first choice would be the HB hubs.

I specifically remember reading about Luke's experiences with the MM's. What was it, 3 in one trip? 4?

If I had the time to hunt for a set from a HB I'd do that, but I'm guessing they'd be expensive since they're so hard to come by. My dad's '84 Bronco had Warns, and I just remember that truck being a wicked BAMF.

 

[Xterra Performance]

When I had my gen 1 I broke one of my auto hubs.. Swapped to the warn manual hubs with the stud kit. No probs. Worked great! Ran them for about 2 years. Also I can get those if you need them.

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2

 

[KChurch86]

When I had my gen 1 I broke one of my auto hubs.. Swapped to the warn manual hubs with the stud kit. No probs. Worked great! Ran them for about 2 years. Also I can get those if you need them.

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2

I was perusing the ORPP site and saw those listed. If I go Warn I'll be getting them from you. You know, to keep the business local to The Nation

What exactly is the stud kit? Does it replace the studs that I've read are weak with stronger bolts? Stronger studs?

 

[drbandkgb]

I have had zero issues with my warns..

Easy to install

I keep a eye out on the local junk yards

found this for Stan this week

I know courtesyparts is selling a set of hardbody hubs if that's what you wanted.

But warns are much cheaper and work great

 

[KChurch86]

I have had zero issues with my warns..

Easy to install

I keep a eye out on the local junk yards

found this for Stan this week

I know courtesyparts is selling a set of hardbody hubs if that's what you wanted.

But warns are much cheaper and work great

How do you feel about new HB hubs from Courtesy versus ones that came off an older truck? My thinking is that they may be the same design, but maybe not the same quality material since material seems to have changed a lot over the years...

Any input on the Warn stud/bolt dilemma?

 

[Roadwarrior]

I found my HB hubs on CL for 20$... Just saying, I would keep a look out for them..

 

[drbandkgb]

Fromt what I know of them they are old stock.. You may call them about it.

The warns lock in great.. and I feel like they lock in better that the AH..

I have read of the stud issue.. You screw the new studs in and then use a nut to attach the warn.
It is a little goofy.. why warn did just use a stud like came off.. Im guessing because the warn hubs are a general spec hub..
Meaning it will work on toyota and Nissan.. I used a good lock tight on the stud and havent had a issue yet... Been on since last fall...

 

[Xterraforce]

I've heard some people say the Warn hubs stick out to far. The only ones I've actually seen on an X are the ones on Stan and they don't seem to be an issue at all. Perhaps it's only with stock width and offset wheels?

 

[granitex]

I have been running the Mile Markers for a few years and have not had any real problems. Just use a good lock tight and quality cap screws and you will be fine. Over the years I have not been what you would call kind to mine and they have done all that I have asked of them.

Would I rather have the older HB manuals, sure,, but finding them around here is problematic at best.

 

[KChurch86]

Which Loctite are you guys using on the studs? Red or blue?

Figured out that the studs are an M8x1.25 thread, for anyone who's curious. I have no idea what length bolts should be used if switching the studs to bolts.

 

[granitex]

i started using red

 

[drbandkgb]

I used red

 

[Muadeeb]

From the Loctite website:

Loctite Blue (242) may be used on bolts 6mm - 19mm where hand tools will be used for disassembly.
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/10/15/t_lkr_blue/overview/Loctite-Threadlocker-Blue-242.htm

Loctite Red (271) may be used on bolts up to 25mm. Prevents loosening from shock and vibration. It is only removable once cured by heating up parts to 500°F (260°C).
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/t_lkr_red/overview/Loctite-Threadlocker-Red-271.htm

There is also a Green (290) which is used on bolts up to 12mm and is placed after assembly

 

[Xterraforce]

This isn't the first time I've seen where someone has discovered their auto hubs were broken while doing other maintenance. This has me wondering, does something break but the hubs will continue to work for a while but fall apart if removed or something? This is the first 4x4 I've owned with automatic hubs and I have no idea what goes on in there. I know when I've broken a manual hub in the past it was obvious right away because the front end didn't pull anymore. Most manual hubs act just like an unlocked hub when they break. Yukon is making some that default to locked when they break but I doubt we'll ever see them made for our rides.

My question is, if I break an auto hub on the trail will I know immediately or will it not be revealed until inspection? It seems like they must either still work for a while or they're breaking when they're not off road, and I can't imagine why they would break then. I ask because one day last year I was having a hard time climbing some rocks and heard a loud pop from the front left. It sounded like a hub or axle breaking. (I've broken both on other rigs and the sound sticks with me) I got out and looked but didn't see any obvious damage, then when I got back in both front wheels were pulling just fine. I haven't had any trouble at all since then. There were a lot of small little rocks and I figured maybe one had flown up and got stuck in the caliper or something then popped out. Just wondering what breaks on auto hubs and why.

 

[drbandkgb]

Auto hubs are a silly little thing.. I agree it seems like they break and yet work till taken apart.

 

[xterror04]

Kyle those hubs from courtesy are very similar to hb hubs but they are specific to the xterra... They would definatly be the best bet if you can afford them... Thanks for the part number by the way I've been looking for those

 

[KChurch86]

i started using red

I used red

Thanks for the input you two!

From the Loctite website:

Loctite Blue (242) may be used on bolts 6mm - 19mm where hand tools will be used for disassembly.
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/10/15/t_lkr_blue/overview/Loctite-Threadlocker-Blue-242.htm

Loctite Red (271) may be used on bolts up to 25mm. Prevents loosening from shock and vibration. It is only removable once cured by heating up parts to 500°F (260°C).
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/t_lkr_red/overview/Loctite-Threadlocker-Red-271.htm

There is also a Green (290) which is used on bolts up to 12mm and is placed after assembly

Thanks man! Useful info for sure. Now, given that yes, simple hand tools will be used to remove the hubs the next time I need to remove them (for whatever reason that may be), but being that the bolts see so much heat from the rotor, it would make sense to use red Loctite, right? Seems like the heat would want to break down either one over time.

Does that make sense? Or am I over-thinking this.

This isn't the first time I've seen where someone has discovered their auto hubs were broken while doing other maintenance. This has me wondering, does something break but the hubs will continue to work for a while but fall apart if removed or something? This is the first 4x4 I've owned with automatic hubs and I have no idea what goes on in there. I know when I've broken a manual hub in the past it was obvious right away because the front end didn't pull anymore. Most manual hubs act just like an unlocked hub when they break. Yukon is making some that default to locked when they break but I doubt we'll ever see them made for our rides.

My question is, if I break an auto hub on the trail will I know immediately or will it not be revealed until inspection? It seems like they must either still work for a while or they're breaking when they're not off road, and I can't imagine why they would break then. I ask because one day last year I was having a hard time climbing some rocks and heard a loud pop from the front left. It sounded like a hub or axle breaking. (I've broken both on other rigs and the sound sticks with me) I got out and looked but didn't see any obvious damage, then when I got back in both front wheels were pulling just fine. I haven't had any trouble at all since then. There were a lot of small little rocks and I figured maybe one had flown up and got stuck in the caliper or something then popped out. Just wondering what breaks on auto hubs and why.

I'm right there with you man. I know where in the hub mine are broken, but I don't know what caused them to break. I have no idea when they broke either. For all I know, they were broken when I bought the truck. They weren't grenaded or totally mangled, just two small cracks in the splined ring. I can see them working just fine, as long as nothing bound up while the splined rings were moving in and out (to engage and disengage).

Thing is, I've only put my truck into 4wd a handful of times, I really hardly ever use it...dang truck just goes through everything I point it at

As far as how the auto hubs work, I have no idea; but I'm definitely going to try to find out. If I come up with a good explanation (or even better a cool video) I'll share it here.

Kyle those hubs from courtesy are very similar to hb hubs but they are specific to the xterra... They would definatly be the best bet if you can afford them... Thanks for the part number by the way I've been looking for those

No problem man, and thanks for the info on them.

 

[KChurch86]

As far as how the auto hubs work, I have no idea; but I'm definitely going to try to find out. If I come up with a good explanation (or even better a cool video) I'll share it here.

Yeah, well no cool videos yet, but some trucks use vacuum pressure, and some use spring pressure. Both styles do the same basic thing in the end.

There's the splined end of the half-shaft, and then there's the splined ring inside the hub body. Between all that, in our trucks, there's a spring mechanism that holds the splined ring away from the shaft.

When we shift into 4wd, the half-shaft starts turning. The torque of the spinning shaft is stronger than the resistance of the spring mechanism, so the springs "loosen" and allow the splined ring to slide forwards and engage with the splines on the half-shaft. Thus, when the splines are engaged, power goes to the front wheels and viola, 4wd.

This is also why we have to reverse after taking the transfer case out of 4wd...the reverse rotation of the shafts essentially reverses the process with the springs and the splined ring is allowed to slide back into the disengaged position.


Vacuum-actuated trucks do this same basic thing, but utilize vacuum pressure from the engine to move the splined ring. I'm guessing the vacuum suction causes the splined ring to engage onto the splines of the shaft. Once you disengage 4wd, the vacuum to the hubs is released and (again, I'm guessing) there must be some springs that pull/push the ring back into the disengaged position.