Sway bar
- Thread starter Reblazek
- Start date
- Location
- Smyrna, TN
How can you not feel it? Are you not lifted at all?
The only time you'll really feel it on road is around turns, cloverleafs, etc. You get used to it after a week or so, but it's definitely still there. If you have a 3" SL and a 3" BL, the sway bar should have been something you did first, otherwise you're limiting/counteracting your SL. It won't get the maximum flex with the sway bar in place.
I guarantee you'll notice it's missing in an emergency avoidance type maneuver, but in everyday driving with a non-lifted Xterra, you'll most likely never know it's gone.
The primary reason most folks remove the rear swaybar on the first gens is because even with just everyday driving, the sway bar can contact and damage the passneger side rear shock. Having that shock not do its job properly is far more dangerous than driving around without the sway bar.
The primary reason most folks remove the rear swaybar on the first gens is because even with just everyday driving, the sway bar can contact and damage the passneger side rear shock. Having that shock not do its job properly is far more dangerous than driving around without the sway bar.
robcarync
Sliders
- Location
- Raleigh, NC
http://www.clubxterra.org/forums/showthread.php?t=37276
this is the thread that sums it up.
You can tell a little more body roll/sway in long sweeping on ramps, etc...but nothing major. I ditched my front sway bar too...and...well...I am trying to find a way to get it back on because THAT is noticeable
this is the thread that sums it up.
You can tell a little more body roll/sway in long sweeping on ramps, etc...but nothing major. I ditched my front sway bar too...and...well...I am trying to find a way to get it back on because THAT is noticeable
xterraminator
Wheeling
- Location
- Maple Ridge,BC
The first gen its easy to take off. You won't feel too much difference. The bonus part of removing it you get more flex in the back. More flex is good. Only little con of doing it means that your shocks will extend more causing stress on them(especially if they have support the weight of an axle). One of mine actually broke/fell apart because of this. I ended up throwing new ones on with at least 2-3" more travel. Shocks don't like supporting the entire weight of an axle. In the end its worth it. Keeps the tires on the ground as much as possible. Have fun.
The Bil 5100 for example, can hang axles, they are built to handle it, but the 7100's for example, can't, and you want them long enough to NOT be the limiting factor.
SRStaff
Bought an X
- Location
- Central Alabama
I can do 50mph emergency lane changes just fine with the rear sway bar removed with a PML. Tight turns the Xterra handles fine. Have had to do it a few times. The front removed with the stock TBs is no fun at all. Now with the SAW TBs the front is tolerable for normal interstate driving with the front sway bar removed. Tires will play a bigger role in how sloppy the rear is Weather of not the sway bar is on. if you have the stock shocks which are probably shot by now will also get the rear end out of shape more.
Intender
Wheeling
- Location
- Lewisville NC
Had mine off for several years now. Didnt really notice it much. I have had to dodge a couple of cars at highway speeds and managed to dodge most of a deer without feeling to much pucker factor. I do however notice the roll that comes from the revolvers. I have been considering removing the front sway bar just to see how it works.
caseycamby
Suspension Lift
- Location
- Marion, NC
Just gonna echo what everyone else is saying. I couldn't notice a big difference at all in removing the rear. I've had it off for awhile now.
A few months back I removed the front.. you can tell. Much more body roll. I ended up putting it back on with new endlinks in a few weeks. I did drive to Tennessee with it off and it was sketchy going around big trucks. Not enough difference in justifying the removal of the front sway bar, in my opinion, but the rear definitely needs to go!
A few months back I removed the front.. you can tell. Much more body roll. I ended up putting it back on with new endlinks in a few weeks. I did drive to Tennessee with it off and it was sketchy going around big trucks. Not enough difference in justifying the removal of the front sway bar, in my opinion, but the rear definitely needs to go!
Thank you guys for all your input on this. I have 3" suspension lift n 3" BL.
Has anyone put spacers or anything like that on the front sway bar? I was told by putting in spacers my bushings would last longer. I had also asked about proper height set on the torsion bars on the front giving me as much height as I can get. Tire clearance! I have 33's they rub just coming into the driveway with the wheel turned a little. 4wheel parts did the work on my X last. I don't know what your local 4wheel parts is like but they suck here in Calgary. All they know how to do Is unbolt n bolt on parts. They are not 4x4 specialists like they claim. They also don't know anything about admitting when they make mistakes. There really good at taking your money n not warranting their work. They always seem to have a reason why things happen. That's why I'm trying to understand what ride height I can have n not wear parts down to fast (cv axles, etc).
After the last work they did I had up to a 1/4" of wear on my inner front tires 2000 miles. They said that's normal with IFS.
Has anyone put spacers or anything like that on the front sway bar? I was told by putting in spacers my bushings would last longer. I had also asked about proper height set on the torsion bars on the front giving me as much height as I can get. Tire clearance! I have 33's they rub just coming into the driveway with the wheel turned a little. 4wheel parts did the work on my X last. I don't know what your local 4wheel parts is like but they suck here in Calgary. All they know how to do Is unbolt n bolt on parts. They are not 4x4 specialists like they claim. They also don't know anything about admitting when they make mistakes. There really good at taking your money n not warranting their work. They always seem to have a reason why things happen. That's why I'm trying to understand what ride height I can have n not wear parts down to fast (cv axles, etc).
After the last work they did I had up to a 1/4" of wear on my inner front tires 2000 miles. They said that's normal with IFS.
You want at least 1/2" to 3/4" of upper bumpstop gap on the UCA. That typically determines the alignment range and ride quality, as less than that, and you typically have insufficient down travel remaining if the gap is too small.
You want to add longer down tubes/extensions for the link that goes from the front sway bar down to the LCA mount.
OEM Sized sway bar uplink
Extended Size Sway bar uplink.
The idea is that you don't want too much preload, which tends to whittle the upper link to a sharp point, etc. By extending the length of the link, you take off some tension/load at ride height...and, ideally, you are getting it so no leverage/loading is applied AT ride height, but, as soon as one side moves up/down relative to the other side, the opposite side is loaded to counter brace it.
You can use a simple pipe section with a bolt through it and washers at either end, etc.
Essentially, as the lower part of the bar is captured in brackets attached to the front cross member (Of the frame), and the bar ends curve upwards, eventually attaching to the LCA via the afore mentioned links...
When you do an SL, the LCA are pivoted down relative to the frame (Or, if you like, the frame goes up but the LCA stay down, etc...)
In that case, the distance from the LCA link mount to the frame is now a longer distance...and the links are being pulled, which preloads the bar proportionally. The BUSHING is what is resisting that load, and, as the suspension cycles, that bushing is whittled away by the load and ride motions.
By making that link a little longer, the bar itself doesn't have to bend to reach any more, and, you remove the preload from the bushing...making it survive better. It will still load when one side is uneven with the other, as its supposed to, but, you've merely changed the baseline length that the loading starts at, to reflect the new, higher, ride height.
You want to add longer down tubes/extensions for the link that goes from the front sway bar down to the LCA mount.
OEM Sized sway bar uplink
Extended Size Sway bar uplink.
The idea is that you don't want too much preload, which tends to whittle the upper link to a sharp point, etc. By extending the length of the link, you take off some tension/load at ride height...and, ideally, you are getting it so no leverage/loading is applied AT ride height, but, as soon as one side moves up/down relative to the other side, the opposite side is loaded to counter brace it.
You can use a simple pipe section with a bolt through it and washers at either end, etc.
Essentially, as the lower part of the bar is captured in brackets attached to the front cross member (Of the frame), and the bar ends curve upwards, eventually attaching to the LCA via the afore mentioned links...
When you do an SL, the LCA are pivoted down relative to the frame (Or, if you like, the frame goes up but the LCA stay down, etc...)
In that case, the distance from the LCA link mount to the frame is now a longer distance...and the links are being pulled, which preloads the bar proportionally. The BUSHING is what is resisting that load, and, as the suspension cycles, that bushing is whittled away by the load and ride motions.
By making that link a little longer, the bar itself doesn't have to bend to reach any more, and, you remove the preload from the bushing...making it survive better. It will still load when one side is uneven with the other, as its supposed to, but, you've merely changed the baseline length that the loading starts at, to reflect the new, higher, ride height.
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Cruecible
Titan Swapped / SAS'd
- Location
- Albuquerque, NM
How, with a 3" BL on 33's, are you getting any rubbing just coming into your driveway? How wide are your tires? What's the backspacing of your wheels if they are not stock? I'm sure TJTJ or someone else can elaborate more on this, but the SL has nothing to do with clearing bigger tires as all you're doing is pushing the truck up more in the air by using the suspension to push down. I have a 2" BL and 3" SL and have zero issues with my 33's on Nissan Frontier Desert Runner wheels.
Frogstar7055
Wheeling
- Location
- Jacksonville FL
I still have both sway bars.
Hanging on the garage wall.
Hanging on the garage wall.
Just like the gap between the blades of a pair of scissors is smaller closer to the handles and larger closer to the tips, you do not need the more inboard extensions to be as long as the more outboard lift amount.
So, when you undo the ends, they will rise above their current attachment points when sitting at ride height. That difference is ~ what you are adding.
The limiting factor on front lift is the upper bump stop gap, you need at least 1/2 - 3/4".
IFS doesn't wear the inner front tires 1/4" in 2,000 miles, a bad alignment does.
After a LIFT, OUTER front tire wear is more normal, unless you got a good post-lift alignment. If you are getting the wear on the INNER side of the front tires, that's abnormal in almost ALL cases.
Essentially, when you raise the ride height, the OEM alignment specs no longer apply. IFS DOES swing the arms down and in, tipping the upper tire edges outboard as the arms come down. This would make the tires, as viewed from the front of the truck, look like this:
\-0-/
Examples: (As viewed from the front of the truck)
l-0-l = normal
\-0-/ = uncorrected camber (Upper tire edges tipped out, more wear on OUTER tire edges)
/-0-\ = Over corrected camber/sagged front ride height (Upper tire edges tipped IN, Inner tire wear is increased)
(A Lift makes the arms come down enough to raise the ride height)
So, as IFS is tipping the tire onto its OUTER edge, OUTER edge wear is the typical result, not inner.
To adjust for that, the alignment needs to correct the camber, so that the tires are upright again. It also needs to correct the toe and caster, as the higher ride height also impacts those specs.
Too much toe-in and too much camber are your primary culprits when prematurely wearing the tires.
Too LITTLE toe can wear the inner treads more than the outer for example.
Setting the ride height too low can make the arms ride higher, increasing your bump stop gap as a clue, and, making the tires tops tip INWARD, reversing the normal camber impact of a lift.
Toe-in:
So, viewed from ABOVE the truck, with the front to the top:
NO or zero toe = l-0-l = tires pointed straight ahead.
Toe-IN = /-0-\ = tires in "skiing snow-plow/pigeon toed" position.
Toe-OUT = \-0-/ = tires in duck waddle position.
A little toe-in is good, as its a more stable position, with less wandering and steering correction etc. Too much toe-in wears the outer tire edges prematurely, and cost mpg, etc. Toe-out is very unstable, and wears the inner tire edges prematurely, etc....so alignments typically just talk about how MUCH toe-in.
Caster is a bit more complicated, but, think of a chair with "caster wheels", and, think of a chopper style motorcycle.
A chair's wheels have negative caster, as they typically are going to trail behind their attachment point to the chair leg....and they wobble like crazy if you roll the chair very quickly....but are very easy to change direction with minimal steering correction.
A chopper has a lot of caster, as the front wheel is way in front of the fork handle, etc.
The chopper is very stable, great for a long cruise, but, not great at changing direction, the way a cafe racer's front tire is under the fork handle.
So, the caster is set to get a good balance between the wobbly chair wheel and the chopper's front wheel, etc. (responsive but still stable).
Most alignments concentrate on camber and toe settings.
A good alignment also is a little different between the D and P sides, to account for normal road crowning, etc.
And so forth.
So job #1 is to look at where your new UCA would come down onto your upper stop, and, measure that gap. It SHOULD be ~ 1/2" to 3/4" after a 3" SL.
If that gap is OK, then, your front lift is "OK" as far as lift amount.
Measurement of the rig's heights will be all over the map, as tires, weights, psi, etc, BL/no BL, etc, will change everyone's end results.
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- Location
- Huntsville, AL
Go to photobucket, imgur, tinypic, or your choice of photo hosting sites and copy/paste the code with the
2" is pretty much stock...maybe even more so. For a PML or 3" SL, you get that gap down to ~ 1/2" - 3/4" to get lift.
IE: The UCA do not provide lift....they only allow alignment at the higher ride height...so the lift doesn't kill your tires, etc. They also are shaped to avoid the stop, so that the UCA can drop down farther before hitting it...increasing droop/wheel travel.