NMTerras
Suspension Lift
- Location
- New Mexico
What did you end up doing?
SAS Questions. Axles and SAS Kits
- Thread starter Edodrian
- Start date
ChiXterra
Wheeling
- Location
- Northern Illinois
Just keeping my truck as is, and when it comes time I'll do a BL. I don't have the money to finish an SAS. But, if you're concerned with power, the Better Xterra platform is the 2nd Gen.
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- Location
- S.Subs of Chicago, IL.
I guess this is the right thread for this question...
Leaf or Coil over?!?! What's best and why?
I ask because if I actually do get the money for this in the future I'm really considering buying a set of new axles rather than trying to find and referbish an old set to save tme and headache.
Leaf or Coil over?!?! What's best and why?
I ask because if I actually do get the money for this in the future I'm really considering buying a set of new axles rather than trying to find and referbish an old set to save tme and headache.
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NMTerras
Suspension Lift
- Location
- New Mexico
Obviously the second gens have more power, that's not the point. The point is the first gen's are somewhat underpowered and therefore weight is a consideration. I don't disagree that d60s are stronger, however I do disagree with the categorical statement that d44s arent strong enough to run 37s. and you don't have to break the bank to brace them appropriately, you just have to put in the work. There is more than one way to SAS a cat. As to the statement that our stock rear ends aren't strong enough to run 37s (I think it was Edo that said that), I disagree with that also. the h233b is a sturdy rear end, stronger than the 44s or Ford 9" rears. Ideally, with money no object, I'd keep the H233b rear and invest in the h233b diamond custom front, which I believe Rugged Rocks is preparing to test on a first gen now that it has successfully installed one on a Pathy. Those have the D60 inner Cs and should be plenty strong. Spensive, though. Second choice after that one, for me, would be dana 44s with bracing, and run 35s for now. But, like Chixterra, I've decided to wait for the time being.
- Location
- Huntsville, AL
Coilovers allow for adjustments in everything from spring rates to valving. Some argue it also rides smoother because of this.
@NMTerras
As for the Axle + Tire combo discussion, I'm with you. Go look at WhiteRockFab's SAS. He ran his rig on 37s for short while before he had to part ways with it. As long as you have trusses, comparable links, and the right hubs and shafts, 37s can be had on a D44 and H233b (speaking in terms of strength).
ChiXterra
Wheeling
- Location
- Northern Illinois
Axles can be debated until the end of the world. Those that want to run D60's on our trucks are really never going to change their minds. They think they are the better choice of axle for their application. That's cool, and I see some of their points. Personally I won't run them and think they are a waste of weight unless you have a rig with 500 hp+ (now an X with that much HP would just be fun...Hmmmmmmm...) HP D44 is my axle of choice. FW or cut down they fit any application you can desire. A Jana 54 Kit and a set of RCV Axkes and your not gonna break the 44. Some will even argue that it's stronger then a 60 at that point. I've seen 44's with 40's no problems, and yes, they were beat on.
Suspension, leafs are tried, true and been shown to work pretty dam well. That said they haven't changed since they were developed, back in medieval times (before cars people, we're talking castles and dragons and ****.....ok, not dragons, but you get the point) and are therefor OLD F-ING TECHNOLOGY. If your gonna do this much work to a rig, why would you want to put a technology on it that is several hundred years old??????? Coild springs are a cheap and good way to go, and coilovers are even better.
Of course, all of this is just my opinion, so take it for just that.
Cheers,
Josh
&
Aramis
Good to see you jump in, Josh. Leafs may be old technology, but the new sets aren't too bad. I'm honestly thinking of going to an SAS down the road with leaf springs up front and an engine swap.
Sent from my iPhone
- Location
- S.Subs of Chicago, IL.
... Suspension, leafs are tried, true and been shown to work pretty dam well. That said they haven't changed since they were developed, back in medieval times (before cars people, we're talking castles and dragons and ****.....ok, not dragons, but you get the point) and are therefor OLD F-ING TECHNOLOGY. If your gonna do this much work to a rig, why would you want to put a technology on it that is several hundred years old??????? Coild springs are a cheap and good way to go, and coilovers are even better.
Of course, all of this is just my opinion, so take it for just that.
All these questions are based on the fact that my intention is to keep the ol'skool feel of the GEN1. Then coil over technology is for a lack of a better phrase "new skool". Nothing against it mind you. I just have a plan in mind.
As far as an engine swap (if that was directed towards me), I'm looking at a 302(it has a front sump) w/ a 700R4 tranny. That's why I asked about coil overs. Questioning if they will handle the weight of the V8. I know the leaves will.
I do believe the h233b is a tough axle, its been around quite some time and there havent been many issues I have seen with them.
I just dont 'feel' safe with anything larger than a 35 on it. I feel that the gearing I would have to aim for would put the stress on the axle shafts.
Im also talking about stock shafts.
I've put my rear axle thru hell, I won't lie. It's still there.
But anything can break, I just dont want to find it and it get me stranded out BFE.
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NMTerras
Suspension Lift
- Location
- New Mexico
^^^I suppose that is a potential concern. If I were going to run 37s with stock rear end, I'd run 5.13 or 5.14 gears (not ideal, I know) and have crawler gears.
Anyone tried running 37s with the H233b rear yet? Comments? I think Alpine swapped his rear, but as i type this I'm not sure
Anyone tried running 37s with the H233b rear yet? Comments? I think Alpine swapped his rear, but as i type this I'm not sure
- Location
- Huntsville, AL
Again, WRF has. Look at his build (if you can find it still). He had 37" MTRs with 5.14s and chromo shafts. No T-case gears that I saw.
NMTerras
Suspension Lift
- Location
- New Mexico
I was looking for comments from those that have done it...I know it's been done....want to know how it worked out
ChiXterra
Wheeling
- Location
- Northern Illinois
I have to take measurements still, but I'm aiming for a GM 5.3L V8 with a matching tranny, and transfer case.
Sent from my iPhone
- Location
- S.Subs of Chicago, IL.
Hey...don't we have to have a front sumped engine??? I thought GM's were rear sumped. That's why I went with a 302 instead of a 305.
- Location
- S.Subs of Chicago, IL.
If you SAS and move the axle forward a touch (which you have to do since your running bigger tires) you can use a rear sump engine. Also, you can switch just about any V8 from front to rear sump and visa-versa.
Cheers,
JP
Did NOT know I needed to slide the axle forward a bit. Good to know. Although I've been told a subframe will be needed for the larger engine. AND truth be told, my first choice for the engine is a 351C but didn't think it would fit. It also is a front sump...
- Location
- Probably in class..
If you are going to run 35s, whats the ideal width on the axle? Also should you run spacers on top of that axle to get a wider stance?
I'm asking for future reference, I want to build an overland rig like Casper has.
I'm asking for future reference, I want to build an overland rig like Casper has.
NMTerras
Suspension Lift
- Location
- New Mexico
There are a couple of it depends answers there...
If your axle is the width you want, then no spacers necessary. Not sure if any width is "ideal" although I want to go slightly wider than stock which is 62.5" wms to wms. You also can widen your stance with wheels less than factory backset. I think Casper is within an inch of stock width (correct me if I'm wrong josh) and has steel wheels w less than stock backset.
- Location
- Probably in class..
I guess I was meaning I am like, if 63.5" is optimal but 62.5" is the easiest/cheapest to get your hands on, then running a half inch spacer would be what you need to do..
Whenever I can snag another good side job to rake some funds in, I'm going to start looking for a D44. I'm going to do a Leaf front conversion and maybe run 35's if not keep my 33's. Opinions on what gearing to go with. I plan on keeping the rear and not messing with it at all except to regear it really. I don't really like the giant tires seeing how I don't have massive rocks/boulders to climb down here, just lots of up and down off camber stuff I could flex through easily.
midget
First Fill-Up (of many)
- Location
- what cheer,Iowa
5.13s would fit pretty nicely, you could go Sua to keep the front end nice and low to. Ive seen a black x on youtube that sits down on 33s with a sua.
Yeah I liked that, keeping it low cog. I wheel with a ton of Xj's in my area so if they can pull it off, I should be able too. Basically going to do a poor man's Sas with the required items for now to get it moving then add and modify as I go, still my DD, haha.
Grandpa X
First Fill-Up (of many)
- Location
- Luverne Mn
This stuff is all valid... and we have built and run them all in Colorado.
Going from a Dana 44 to a Dana 60 is as much a weight limitation as a tire size limitation. I run 38 inch TSL's on beadlocks with Dana 44's front and rear. (Heck it even had stock shafts up front the first season.) Never had an issue.. However this is on a 3200 lb Nissan Hard Body. When I ran a Nissan Pathfinder (4500lbs) the axle shafts caused a bit of trouble.
Now, if a guy follows some basic rules a Dana 44 does fine.
Number 1... Never back up an obstacle with the front locker on. This will bust shafts like snapping your fingers. If you are stuck and must try this act.. make sure the front wheels are not turned! They will last a couple more bumps..
Number 2... Only use the front locker when it is needed. This is where a Detroit locker or spool is bad... when needed is not how they work. (Normally some guy, who slips through mud all day long, will pipe up on this rule. Heck a Dana 30 does fine in the slippery stuff...)
Number 3... This is not really a rule as much as a fact. Some folks snap parts.. some don't. It doesn't matter.. some guys can punish their rig on the hard trails successfully.. some can't. They do the same obstacles... same trails.. same basic rigs.. and it just happens.
The 233b... it is 33 spline... and yes it has a bigger ring gear.. and statistically maybe stronger oem to oem. However find chromo axle shafts or support... I like the axle, have friends that run them.. I don't. I will however run a Dana 44 out of an Isuzu Rodeo all day long. Just a personal preference.
Going from a Dana 44 to a Dana 60 is as much a weight limitation as a tire size limitation. I run 38 inch TSL's on beadlocks with Dana 44's front and rear. (Heck it even had stock shafts up front the first season.) Never had an issue.. However this is on a 3200 lb Nissan Hard Body. When I ran a Nissan Pathfinder (4500lbs) the axle shafts caused a bit of trouble.
Now, if a guy follows some basic rules a Dana 44 does fine.
Number 1... Never back up an obstacle with the front locker on. This will bust shafts like snapping your fingers. If you are stuck and must try this act.. make sure the front wheels are not turned! They will last a couple more bumps..
Number 2... Only use the front locker when it is needed. This is where a Detroit locker or spool is bad... when needed is not how they work. (Normally some guy, who slips through mud all day long, will pipe up on this rule. Heck a Dana 30 does fine in the slippery stuff...)
Number 3... This is not really a rule as much as a fact. Some folks snap parts.. some don't. It doesn't matter.. some guys can punish their rig on the hard trails successfully.. some can't. They do the same obstacles... same trails.. same basic rigs.. and it just happens.
The 233b... it is 33 spline... and yes it has a bigger ring gear.. and statistically maybe stronger oem to oem. However find chromo axle shafts or support... I like the axle, have friends that run them.. I don't. I will however run a Dana 44 out of an Isuzu Rodeo all day long. Just a personal preference.
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ChiXterra
Wheeling
- Location
- Northern Illinois
I did the unthinkable. I happened to stumble across a late 70's F-250 D44. It's housing only, so now I can cut it down to match the width of the Ford 9". The build will be painstakingly slow, though. As I will be on the hunt for a 5.3L GM motor, tranny, and transfer case. I'm probably going to run 4.56 gears back and front.
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