PML Trouble: Re-Indexing the T-Bars

[TheFauxFox]

Alright, so I installed a PML on my 2000 Xterra about a week or two ago and all was well and dandy, other than the fact that I was riding the bump stops. I finally had the opportunity today to attempt to re-index the front end. Using at least 3 different sources, I felt confident I could do this. Unfortunately, this is not the case.

I sprayed everything down a week ago and today, about 8 hours before I climbed under the truck. I first attempted soccerbrace's re-indexing guide on CX and got all the way to the part where the T-bar is removed from the lower control arm (LCA). For the life in me, I could not simply "remove the torsion bar from the anchor plate." Questioning my technique, I searched a few other articles on the interwebs that required far less information. However, each time I read an article, the article simply read, "remove the torsion bar*." Additionally, multiple articles told me that I would have a lot of free motion in the rear side of the T-bar where it meets the cross-member on the frame. I know all vehicles aren't alike, but I had very limited play here, maybe a mm or two in each direction.

Maybe its because I like very specific information (because that* just seems extremely vague), maybe I messed up somewhere, but I can't re-index at all. For the time being, I down-cranked my t-bars to attempt to create a bigger gap in the bump stops. Where did I go wrong?

Thanks.

 

[chuckamazuk]

The torsion bars are always super stuck in the anchors. You need to loosen the three bolts on the anchor and then hit the other end of the torsion bars (where the adjustment arm is) with a mallet. Hit the crap out of it; that's how I got mine out to re-index.

 

[CMD]

The torsion bars are always super stuck in the anchors. You need to loosen the three bolts on the anchor and then hit the other end of the torsion bars (where the adjustment arm is) with a mallet. Hit the crap out of it; that's how I got mine out to re-index.

^^ This is your answer. ^^

You don't want to remove the anchor, just loosen it. The with the adjuster loosened, give it some good smacks. Now only one of them have to to be loose. Preferably the adjuster.

 

[pro2amendment]

Will re-indexing even help you out? I assume you are trying to get more bump stop gap while keeping your 1.5" lift... I thought re-indexing won't help this (but could be wrong), but rather help if you maxed out the adjusters and still had room to go...

 

[RacerXXL]

Will re-indexing even help you out? I assume you are trying to get more bump stop gap while keeping your 1.5" lift... I thought re-indexing won't help this (but could be wrong), but rather help if you maxed out the adjusters and still had room to go...

Could also be that coming down on the adjustment also brought the adjuster finger out of the cross member exposing it to damage and had to re-index to tuck the adjuster in.

 

[AaronsX]

I still gotta do this but I don't have a floor jack or jack stands. My bumpstops look like pancakes...it needs to be lowered BAD!

 

[TheFauxFox]

In the meantime for my drive home today, I lowered the adjusters a little more so give myself a bigger gap. I"m kinda confused as to where this leaves me now.

 

[AaronsX]

In the meantime for my drive home today, I lowered the adjusters a little more so give myself a bigger gap. I"m kinda confused as to where this leaves me now.

I thought the hole point was to lower it off the stops to give a bigger gap and smother ride and allow the shocks to work....what else are you looking to do?

Thats what I figured id do...is lower it a tad for a bigger gap

 

[TheFauxFox]

I thought the hole point was to lower it off the stops to give a bigger gap and smother ride and allow the shocks to work....what else are you looking to do?

Thats what I figured id do...is lower it a tad for a bigger gap

Well:

Will re-indexing even help you out? I assume you are trying to get more bump stop gap while keeping your 1.5" lift... I thought re-indexing won't help this (but could be wrong), but rather help if you maxed out the adjusters and still had room to go...

According to this statement (and the proceeding posts), I'm not sure anymore. Can someone clarify?

 

[RacerXXL]

Well:



According to this statement (and the proceeding posts), I'm not sure anymore. Can someone clarify?

I re-read your OP I can't really understand what you are trying to accomplish here.

Have you done a PML and the bumpstop is now touching?

 

[AaronsX]

If they are wouldn't you just reverse the lift to lower it down a hair to get the gap?

Also you might look into some ultra low profile bump stops, I have them waiting to be installed whenever I get around to lowering my front end off the bumps

 

[Macland]

Pictures are worth 1000 words

 

[ryandavenport]

Alright. I think that I understand. He is riding on the bump stops, and his original thought was that reindexing will bring the truck off of the bumpstops (i.e. bigger space between bumpstops and whatever it is hitting). But am I right in assuming that reindexing doesn't give you more clearance at the bumpstops, it just deals with the key at the most rearward point of the torsion bar?

 

[RacerXXL]

Alright. I think that I understand. He is riding on the bump stops, and his original thought was that reindexing will bring the truck off of the bumpstops (i.e. bigger space between bumpstops and whatever it is hitting). But am I right in assuming that reindexing doesn't give you more clearance at the bumpstops, it just deals with the key at the most rearward point of the torsion bar?

Re-indexing will allow you to re-position the adjuster on the bar if you run out of travel in the adjustment range before reaching the proper bump stop gap or to re-position the adjuster if you have reached the proper bump stop gap and the adjuster finger is hanging down below the cross member begging to be taken out by a rock.

 

[TheFauxFox]

Alright. I think that I understand. He is riding on the bump stops, and his original thought was that reindexing will bring the truck off of the bumpstops (i.e. bigger space between bumpstops and whatever it is hitting). But am I right in assuming that reindexing doesn't give you more clearance at the bumpstops, it just deals with the key at the most rearward point of the torsion bar?

Correct. I guess I forgot to mention it

Somewhere on CX, I could have sworn someone told somebody about reindexing being the remedy. I probably read wrong or just got really lost.

 

[AaronsX]

Im stepping out of this thread and just going to watch. I thought when you adjusted the tbars for the first time to lift it it was called indexing...and I figured re-indexing was to do it again to make sure both sides (driver & passenger) were the same and to fix a gap if needed. But if my post is confusing just act like you never read it...ill just watch cause I'm confused and need to get it sorted out also cause I'm sitting on my bump stops big time too...where is soccer brace when you need him?!?

Re-indexing will allow you to re-position the adjuster on the bar if you run out of travel in the adjustment range before reaching the proper bump stop gap or to re-position the adjuster if you have reached the proper bump stop gap and the adjuster finger is hanging down below the cross member begging to be taken out by a rock.

^^^^this^^^^

 

[TheFauxFox]

Im stepping out of this thread and just going to watch. I thought when you adjusted the tbars for the first time to lift it it was called indexing...and I figured re-indexing was to do it again to make sure both sides (driver & passenger) were the same and to fix a gap if needed. But if my post is confusing just act like you never read it...ill just watch cause I'm confused and need to get it sorted out also cause I'm sitting on my bump stops big time too...where is soccer brace when you need him?!?

Haha.

I was also under the understanding that lower profile bump stops won't fix this problem, not to put you down or anything.

At some point, I misunderstood something completely and now I'm lost. As of late last night, I lowered my lift again just enough to have some lift, without grinding against the bumpstops. The gap is still not sufficient enough by most standards; however, will work until I either lower it further or find a fix that allows me to keep the amount of lift I have.

:shucks:

 

[AaronsX]

Ok ignore all the drama on this thread, we all came to the great XN cause its drama free and a amazing forum but this might help you fauxfox.
http://www.clubxterra.org/forums/showthread.php?t=31653

This is my problem, and I think I'm just going to follow the steps for the very first time you do the front end part of the pml to lower it down...but not all the way down just enough to get a good gap.

 

[TheFauxFox]

Haha, drama... what drama.

I remember that thread and it makes sense now that I've read it again. Its looking like I'm going to lower it a bit more and consider lo-pro bump stops.

Thanks for the help thus far, everybody.

 

[TJTJ]

Just for the record:

This is how you get the t-bars out of the anchors (After a week of PB Blaster, not WD40...):

1) Take the weight off the suspension, put the frame on jack stands/chock it in place, etc.

2) Lower the adjuster fingers below the cross member all the way...and drop the adjuster bolt OUT (You can clean it up now, put anti-seize on the threads, etc...)

3) BFH the adjuster finger back (Towards the rear of the truck)...trying to PULL THE LCA END out of the LCA anchor.

a) The BFH will either a) knock the splines loose on the LCA end, or,

b) Knock the splines loose on the adjuster end. (I've never seen BOTH ends let go at the same time...)

4) If the adjuster anchor end lets go, so the bar is stuck in the LCA anchor, that's the tougher one...and you unbolt the LCA anchor from the LCA.

SOMETIMES, the LCA anchor has ONE trapped bolt...and it stuck on.

If its stuck, pivot the t-bar/anchor over enough to insert a few quarters from the LCA side. This supports the end of the t-bar in the anchor...so you can whack the anchor off the end of the bar (Towards the LCA) tapping it progressively in a circular motion to work it off.

If the LCA anchor was NOT stuck, so you have a t-bar with the LCA anchor stuck to it...put a socket that fits into the back of the anchor on the ground (Concrete, flat rock, etc...), and with the bar up, and the bottom end of the BAR resting on the socket...whack the anchor off (Towards the ground), tapping it progressively in a circular motion to work it down.

5) If you end up with the LCA end free, and the bar still stuck in the adjuster anchor, you can

a) rotate/twist the bar/anchor OUT of the cross member to remove it...where you then take the adjuster anchor off the bar the same way you did for the LCA anchor.

b) use a drift pin, etc...to drive the bar out of the adjuster anchor from the REAR of the cross member (You can do this through the rear of the anchor, visible from the rear of the cross member)

I found that if you use a dumbbell weight as a slide hammer, you can slide the weight down the t-bar at the anchor (Supporting the BAR with that socket...) so that the weight hits the anchor evenly all around...rather than tapping in circles with the BFH, etc....driving it off.

6) BEFORE re-assembly - coat all the threads and splines with anti-seize compound. This makes the NEXT time, and any adjustments later, WAAAAAYYYY easier.



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As for what re-indexing does for you:

As far as the suspension is concerned, it can't tell the difference between re-indexing and turning the adjuster.

The bottom line is that a t-bar is round...and ALL you are DOING when you adjust the ride height is changing the bar's STARTING POINT for twist.

The bar will twist a few degrees when the weight of the truck is on it...call it settling, pre-load, etc.

So, for whatever point the bar STARTS at, it will twist the SAME NUMBER OF DEGREES.

If you rotate the bar so its NEW point after those few degrees of initial twist holds the truck up at a higher ride height...you are indexing the bar to a higher ride height (INDEXING MEANS ROTATING).


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OK, hold the above thought.

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Alright - now, lets say you are TRYING to rotate the bar to a new starting point....but, the adjuster finger is ALL THE WAY UP IN THE CROSS MEMBER....and you are out of ROOM to crank it FURTHER.

If the adjuster was a WRENCH, and you'd turned the WRENCH as far as you could, but needed to make ANOTHER turn.....you would simply take the wrench off the bolt, and put it back on at a new starting point to get a fresh turn on it.


THAT'S all RE-indexing is.



You take the adjuster anchor off the end of the bar, and put it back on at a fresh starting point, to get another turn.

--------------------------------

You can RE-index without even changing your ride height.

For example, lets say the adjuster finger was too LOW...where a passing rock could whack it off....but (Of course...) cranking it up into the cross member would raise the ride height, and you didn't WANT the ride height higher (You had you 1/2" or so of upper bump stop clearance, etc...)

You could take the bar out, lever the finger up a bit higher, and re-insert the bar at the new starting point, and THEN have room to crank the finger up into the cross member, out of the way...AND settle the suspension at the SAME ride height as before. (Because you raised the finger up towards the cross member more before inserting the bar again, so it STARTING closer to being tucked up into the cross member....you will have a "head start" on tucking it up there)


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Hope that all helps!

 

[AbuseTheElderly]

You are the man TJ! Lots of good information.

 

[TheFauxFox]

For sure. That pretty much sums up this thread.