Learning to weld

[Maxterra]

Been welding for a living, or at least a good part of my job since I was 14 (yikes, like 35 years now???).
For most the stuff we do automotive-wise, Best to go MIG. Easiest to learn.
Just stay away from the cheap ones. 220volt with shielding gas is the best choice, but it will be a little pricey.
I've got a Miller 250 out in my shop that I've had in a few different shops for over 25 yrs and virtually NO repairs or problems.
Pretty much used most brands, but very partial to Miller.

ARC, I most use for structural welding, Heavy large stuff (harder to learn on for sure).
TIG, love it and beautiful, controlled welds, but SLOW and not needed for most of what we're doing. VERY expensive equipment-wise too.

I have all 3 in my shop, but mostly use MIG, TIG and ARC in that order.

Took welding in college and structural cert.
At present job, wanted me to get more certs, so I took night classes at the ATC and would recommend that above about anything else.
Also studied CAD at the ATC, and appreciate how they let you work at the speed & level of where you're already at.

 

[Ron ap Rhys]

I'd love to learn how. Seems like a pretty decent investment in tools to start practicing, though - and even then, that's just practice stuff and not the actual metal to build anything useful.

If someone's relatively mechanically-inclined, how difficult would it be to learn to MIG weld such that the stuff wouldn't be unsafe?

 

[dhyde79]

if you have a pair of pliers, a spot to weld, a mask, two pieces of metal, a hammer, a welder, and power for it, you can learn to weld, MIG is by far the easiest to learn to be accurate, but, because it runs deeper with a flux core welder, you can blow through if you aren't careful with your settings...but, it's VERY easy to learn...and then it just takes practice.

 

[Ricel]

I picked up MIG in a weekend. In no means of being amazing. But i got the basics down. My buddy and i found a lincoln 180 with all included for around 450 on Cl. Never been plugged in.

2 days later made a welding cart out of a rolling clothes hanger we picked up at a scrap yard for 20 bucks. (post somewhere on here)

I created an adapter to work with my dryer plug after checking the wiring met code for the welder. Works great!

 

[dhyde79]

I picked up MIG in a weekend. In no means of being amazing. But i got the basics down. My buddy and i found a lincoln 180 with all included for around 450 on Cl. Never been plugged in.

2 days later made a welding cart out of a rolling clothes hanger we picked up at a scrap yard for 20 bucks. (post somewhere on here)

I created an adapter to work with my dryer plug after checking the wiring met code for the welder. Works great!

now THAT sir is a fantastic idea....I may have to do that...or since the fuse box is in the garage, I may just have someone run me a 220V outlet on the same breaker/fuse.

 

[TKDx00]

Picked up a Lincoln 140 ARC/MIG welder lastnight. The Mrs. sprung it on me. All I've been learning is the Flux welds. Reading about MIG seems a lot better weld but not always for 1/4" metal.

THOUGHTS???

 

[Ricel]

Pick your self up some shielding gas, and a regulator! You won't be dissatisfied. Makes such cleaner welds.

If high winds, use flux (shielding gas can be blown away from your arch in windy conditions)

 

[TKDx00]

Pick your self up some shielding gas, and a regulator! You won't be dissatisfied. Makes such cleaner welds.

If high winds, use flux (shielding gas can be blown away from your arch in windy conditions)

Is CO2 expensive? I plan to do my welding in the garage. Well that's the plan...things could always change. Also, What does everyone weld on? I saw someone had a pretty fancy metal table. Looked aluminum.

 

[jmnielsen]

I use argon. It was 45 bucks last time I filled my large bottle up. A great beginning project would be weld up your own welding table! That's what I did.


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?drlbjx

 

[rokdaddy]

Is CO2 expensive? I plan to do my welding in the garage. Well that's the plan...things could always change. Also, What does everyone weld on? I saw someone had a pretty fancy metal table. Looked aluminum.

CO2 is pretty cheap; I pay about $25 to have my 24" x 8" cylinder filled. The tanks cost between $100 and $250 depending on the size.

I don't have a lot of room in my shop so I just use a 24" x 12" steel plate (1/4" thick) as a table for welding small parts. I find that a steel surface works best; it's nice to be able to tack weld pieces to the table to hold them in place while I'm welding. A quick tap with the angle grinder will clean up leftover tack welds and leaves a clean flat surface for my next project. I can set the plate on a bench using scrap metal as spacers to avoid burning the bench top or I can support the plate with a few jack stands creating a mini table. Anything larger than the plate gets laid out on the concrete floor. This setup has worked so well over the years, I'm thinking about making a slightly larger one to completely cover a small bench I have in the shop.

 

[TKDx00]

CO2 is pretty cheap; I pay about $25 to have my 24" x 8" cylinder filled. The tanks cost between $100 and $250 depending on the size.

I don't have a lot of room in my shop so I just use a 24" x 12" steel plate (1/4" thick) as a table for welding small parts. I find that a steel surface works best; it's nice to be able to tack weld pieces to the table to hold them in place while I'm welding. A quick tap with the angle grinder will clean up leftover tack welds and leaves a clean flat surface for my next project. I can set the plate on a bench using scrap metal as spacers to avoid burning the bench top or I can support the plate with a few jack stands creating a mini table. Anything larger than the plate gets laid out on the concrete floor. This setup has worked so well over the years, I'm thinking about making a slightly larger one to completely cover a small bench I have in the shop.

How long does the tank last. I know that's a "depends on" question but I need to weight the 'extra expense' vs. 'ready to weld now' factors or at least a ball park questimation.

As far as the work surface, I was thinking along those lines myself. Nothing fancy, just functional. I've got a leftover 2"x10"x8' wood plank that I was going to cut in half to make a work table on wheels out of. I guess if I covered it w/ 1/4" or 3/16" plate I'd be ok.

 

[rokdaddy]

I went with a smaller cylinder so I can roll the welder cart under a bench for storing. I don't remember the cylinder size but here's a pic of it on the cart:

Sometimes, I can go for years between fills. I had it filled last year before I started a decent sized project:

It's a stand for a 450 lb granite precision measurement table. It doesn't look like much but It took me several months to plan and fabricate it exactly how I wanted. It was made entirely from 2 x 3" steel angle and the steel frame alone weighed a little over 180lbs before I installed the casters. It's been a while since I cut all of the pieces, but I think that I used most of the two 20' sticks of angle that I bought for the project. I just did a quick count and it looks like I have over 25' of weld on this project, over 15' of this was done when boxing the angle to make the legs. Man I love overkill. Anyhoo... I started the project with a freshly filled cylinder and was left with about a third of a tank when I was finished. I'll bet that I still have enough to weld up a set of sliders and maybe something else as well.

-Rok

 

[rokdaddy]

Another thing to think about:

You have a very nice little welder there... you may not know it yet but you NEED to get a gas shielding setup. Don't get me wrong, flux core wire works well on dirty/rusty metals but gas shielding with good wire yields much nicer welds. Learning to MIG weld seems easy at first but there is quite a bit of sight, sound, and feel to doing it right. The flux core wire adds a lot more drama to the weld pool that a beginner could do without. Just a thought... if gas isn't in the budget, you still have a great setup and you can always upgrade later. If you do have some cash in the tool budget... you may not ever finish off the little flux core wire spool that came with your unit.

Either way, you're about to have a lot of fun with that thing...

-Rok

 

[Cyclemut]

I like to weld as well. We do fun little projects, like SAS'ing, bumpers and such. Here's my axle (it's actually three different axles made into one custom unit). Although this isn't my welding. I'm still practicing, trying to get as good as my business partner. He's the genius, I'm just riding his coat tails.

 

[rokdaddy]

That's pretty cool Horshack!

Your friend obviously has some skills... the prep work on that axle appears to be top notch. I'm also building my welding skill set to handle jobs like that one. The more I learn, the more I realize how much more I need to learn. I took several semesters of welding classes in college and all I walked away with is how much I don't understand. My next projects will be sliders and bumpers; hopefully I'll pick up a clue after completing those projects. For some reason I think I'll still be lacking the understanding that I desire but that won't stop me from continuing the pursuit.

-Rok

 

[Ricel]

Great project I started with was my welding cart. Picked up a rolling rack from the scrap yard for 25$.

Cut er down.

Welded her back up

(yep I'm inside it...)

And done.

I'm running a Lincoln 180, co2 10# tank, and auto dimming helmet. The helmet was prob the best investment!

 

[TKDx00]

Mr. Mut...Axles are waaaaay down the road for me if ever...lol but who knows.

Ricel...I saw your build on the cart in a thread before and was interested then. I've got some metal garage storage shelving from Home Depot I've been eyeing about converting into something similar. It just need wheels and a metal top surface. So I think I just found my official first project rather than a set of sliders.

As far as gas... I was more concerned about if it was a hi quantity use item...seems it's not. If that's the case, then I'd most likely get it.

I would have loved to have gotten the 180 but no 220 in the garage and I haven't mastered home electrical wiring yet...lol. I did however get the auto dimming helmet.

 

[rokdaddy]

Great project I started with was my welding cart. Picked up a rolling rack from the scrap yard for 25$.

That has to be the coolest welding cart that I've seen. All of your welding stuff together, in one place, all tucked neatly under your workspace. Nice job. Actually, I'll take that back, for $25 I'd say that was an excellent job.

-Rok

 

[TKDx00]

:0mg: DUHHHH... Just had an AHAA moment.

I want to use gas to weld but need a cart to hold the tank safely. So, I might as well use the Flux wire that came with the welder to make the cart then switch it over to gas after the cart is completed.

:kewl:

See, it takes me a few to work out the kinks in a plan... but I do get there...eventually.

:lols:

 

[TKDx00]

Question to you welders out there.

A friend has let me use his equipment to start learning. The disadvantage for me has been he sets up the machine for the material. Now that I have my own I really don't understand the wire feed setting. I know the thicker the metal 1/4" and up the speed is set high as well as the amps. BUT I have more control at a lower speed.

My question: Will setting the wire speed lower cause a problem since the amps are set higher for penatration on thicker metal? I'd like to slowly turn up the speed and get comfortable until the right speeds are reached. His machine is a 220 shop model, much bigger than the 140 I have.

 

[Silver dude]

Just bought myself a Lincoln 180 last week your welders bigger brother. Been using my dads welder all this time. Recently bought my own place and figured it was time. I've used a majority of different machines. I might not be the proper way but I do it by feel. If I'm welding thick metal 3/16 or so I ramp the amps up so I get the heat and penetration. The wire speed is a feel thing that comes with experience. Listen to your arc as your laying the bead. If it pop pop pop pop its either to fast or to slow. You want a proper feed that gives you a hummmmmmmmmmmm. Takes bit of adjustment.

 

[Xtacular]

What do you guys think about this? Would it be tedious welding 3/16"? Also it says it's MIG but set up for arc? Is FCAW what MIG welding is called without gas?

Ad:

I have MIG 151 welder for sale.
Used for one job and now no longer have a use for it. - practically new
Comes with mask.

Comes set up for Flux Core Arc Welding (FCAW) for hassle-free operation at the start. Add gas components for full MIG welding with shielding gas later on.
•Manual wire feed speed control
•Dual groove knurled drive roller
•Power switch lights up to tell you the power is on
•Duty cycle: 100% @ 30 amps, 60% @ 55 amps, 28% @ 80 amps, 15% @ 110 amps
•6 ft. welding cable with gun
•6 ft. ground cable with clamp

Input: 240 volts, 24.5 amps, single phase, 60 Hz
Welding current: 30 to 160 amps
Rated output voltage: 18 volts @ 110 amps
Max open circuit voltage: 19-30 volts
Rated duty cycle: 15% @ 110 amps
Wire capacity: 0.023" to 0.030"& 0.035"
Wire feed rate: 192 to 306 inches per minute
Weldable materials: Mild steel, low alloy steel, and stainless steel (not suitable for aluminum)
Material thickness: MIG: 22 gauge (1/4" thick), FCAW: 22 gauge (5/16" thick)

$200 obo
I spent over $300 for the whole setup

 

[rokdaddy]

Question to you welders out there.

A friend has let me use his equipment to start learning. The disadvantage for me has been he sets up the machine for the material. Now that I have my own I really don't understand the wire feed setting. I know the thicker the metal 1/4" and up the speed is set high as well as the amps. BUT I have more control at a lower speed.

Your amperage is controlled by your wire speed. If you think about how current flows during the process, it starts to make sense: as wire is fed into the base metal, an arc is created just before the wire makes contact and it heats the workpiece metal and melts away a tiny bit of the wire. Once the wire melts back a bit (while still being fed into the workpiece) it creates another tiny gap that creates another arc. When set up properly, this arcing/melting cycle takes place hundreds of times per second. The resulting sound sounds a lot like sizzling bacon. The pop, pop, pop sound that silver dude mentioned usually comes from having a too high voltage setting for a given wire feed setting; when the arc is created there is so much voltage potential built up that it burns back wire faster than the machine is feeding it and you end up with a very large arc and an erratic popping sound (and an ugly spattery mess). The popping sound can also occur if the wire speed is set too fast for the voltage setting (similar to the reasons listed above but opposite conditions). I had an instructor in school that would constantly remind students that he "wanted to hear bacon frying" to remind them that sound is great way to get your settings right.

My question: Will setting the wire speed lower cause a problem since the amps are set higher for penetration on thicker metal? I'd like to slowly turn up the speed and get comfortable until the right speeds are reached. His machine is a 220 shop model, much bigger than the 140 I have.

The controls are probably a little different on your welder. The smaller units like ours usually only have a voltage control and a wire speed control that controls amperage. If it was me practicing on another persons equipment for the first time, I would just use their settings and adjust my travel speed until I get results that I'm happy with. Practicing how to hold the gun and bracing your body for steady welding are almost as important as getting the machine settings right.

I found a couple of books (one of them was a text book from a MIG class) that I haven't used in a while. You can have them if you want them, just let me know. I'll drop them in a Priority Mail envelope and get them to you by mid-week. Here are a few pages from the lab manual:

 

[TKDx00]

Lotta welders out here...lol Thanks for the info... gonna practice tonight some more after work. I did hear popping but no bacon...HAHAHAHA.

The books are always welcomed I'll pm you with my addy later tonight.

 

[TKDx00]

I GOT BACON !!!!! a little popping but plenty of bacon... HAHAHAHAHAHA

I turned down the speed of the wire feed but left the voltage on "D" for thck metal. Not the greatest bead but a LOT better.

Thanks for the tips.

 

[TKDx00]

What do you guys think about this? Would it be tedious welding 3/16"? Also it says it's MIG but set up for arc? Is FCAW what MIG welding is called without gas?

Ad:

I have MIG 151 welder for sale.
Used for one job and now no longer have a use for it. - practically new
Comes with mask.

Comes set up for Flux Core Arc Welding (FCAW) for hassle-free operation at the start. Add gas components for full MIG welding with shielding gas later on.
•Manual wire feed speed control
•Dual groove knurled drive roller
•Power switch lights up to tell you the power is on
•Duty cycle: 100% @ 30 amps, 60% @ 55 amps, 28% @ 80 amps, 15% @ 110 amps
•6 ft. welding cable with gun
•6 ft. ground cable with clamp

What strikes me as odd about this is that: gun and clamp come with it but they are NOT attached...why not?
And
only used once but paid over $300?!?!?

I am by far no expert next to no knowledge...but something just seems odd to me.

 

[TKDx00]

Learned alot in these last few days of practice. Put wheels on the botton of a 3 shelf thin steel storage unit. Gas is definately the way to go. Lotta slag as a by product using Flux-core wire. Getting better at making a good pool. Hardest this is seeing where you want the weld to be. The auto darkening sheild is DEFINATELY what you want to get. Next is 1/8" metal and make a proper welding platform.

Thanks for the BACON tip!!! :happy:

 

[rokdaddy]

Nice... the bacon tip has been a good reminder for me over the past few years. Now that you are more focused on the sound, you will probably continue to refine that bacon sound over time. I'm finally getting to the point that I can "read" my travel speed and stickout distance by sound alone. Does your hood allow different shade settings? I have 20/10 vision and still can't see my lines very well using the recommended shades. I almost always go down a shade or two from recommended.


-Rok

 

[rjr162]

here's a quick question for you welders...
The one my brother has has all the settings of course, but the thickness and also the wire feed (I believe it was only those two, I'll have to check next time I'm over) both also list an "Auto" setting... how well does the auto settings actually work?

I never used them (nor has he), I usually just let him set it to what I need and then go at it

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2

 

[TKDx00]

...Does your hood allow different shade settings? I have 20/10 vision and still can't see my lines very well using the recommended shades. I almost always go down a shade or two from recommended.-Rok

I bought an AUTO darkening helmet and don't know if I can change the lens cover or not. So far It's worked fine. I figure I've got to get use to how to use it properly and where to follow my lines. Also I need more lighting in the garage...lol


rjr...I can't help you with this ...yet. I'm sure someone will chime in.

 

[TheFauxFox]

I bought an AUTO darkening helmet and don't know if I can change the lens cover or not. So far It's worked fine. I figure I've got to get use to how to use it properly and where to follow my lines. Also I need more lighting in the garage...lol

I couldn't tell exactly what you meant here, but your auto darkening helmet should have a knob on it (if not a 1 setting rating) that will allow some adjust ability in the shading sensitivity. For example, we have two helmets here with an auto darkening feature; however, because of the different levels of light coming off of the different welders, one is strictly for TIG while the other is set up for MIG welding.

 

[TKDx00]

UUUUHHHH HUH...HAHAHAHAHA. I'm new to all this and don't understand Welderish (the welder language) yet. The face plate says "shade 11". Now what that means I have no idea. It darkens when the arc light starts and lightens up when it stops. Now if I'm supposed to have a different shade level I wouldn't know yet.

Lastly...I'm switching it over to MIG as soon as possible...I've used up a roll of flex-core already and I'm not too fond of cleaning the slag off.

 

[TheFauxFox]

This should clear up your helmet questions:
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/articles/Selecting-the-Right-Welding-Helmet-For-You/

About half way down there is a chart with recommended shade levels.

 

[rokdaddy]

UUUUHHHH HUH...HAHAHAHAHA. I'm new to all this and don't understand Welderish (the welder language) yet. The face plate says "shade 11". Now what that means I have no idea. It darkens when the arc light starts and lightens up when it stops. Now if I'm supposed to have a different shade level I wouldn't know yet.

Lastly...I'm switching it over to MIG as soon as possible...I've used up a roll of flex-core already and I'm not too fond of cleaning the slag off.

Shade 11 is a little dark for me when it comes to low amp MIG. It is the most commonly suggested shade for general purpose MIG though so I'm sure you will get used to it. Maybe I should have been more patient with the recommended setting but my hood allows switching between shades so it was easier to simply push a button to see better. I've found that shiny metal surfaces created from good joint prep work, reflects light from the arc and makes it easier to see the seam through the shade. http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Weld---MIG-Welding/step4/Prep-for-Your-Weld/

 

[TKDx00]

I'm finding out that I weld better either standing straight up, laying flat on the ground or sitting in a chair and having where I'm welding at eye level. Now that may sound strange to most but being 6'5" and bending over at the waist gets hard on the back after awhile. LOL.

How do you weld things together with the stick pointing up? I can't seem to get a good bead line w/o it dripping. Makes it look like I'm skipping spaces.

Update: It helps that the wire feed speed is set correctly. Somehow it was set too low.

 

[rokdaddy]

Overhead welding can be tough... if the dripping exposes places that looked like they were skipped, you probably aren't getting good penetration. I didn't even attempt overhead welding until I was comfortable with horizontal and vertical positions first. Not that it has to be learned in that order, but it's much easier to control the weld pool in those positions. Even though I can make good overhead welds, I try to avoid them if I can. I like to optimize my setup for every weld I make; sometimes that means repositioning the workpiece several times to avoid awkward positions (or ones that I'm not so good at yet). I usually try to complete the welded sub assembly before attaching it to the final application (vehicle in this case), this allows me more freedom to rotate and flip the assembly as I'm welding. I've found that jack stands are extremely helpful when supporting welded assemblies, particularly when you need to hold the assembly at an angle.

One of the books I mentioned earlier does a good job of walking the student through the different weld types and positions. It's simplified to the point that it's sometimes boring but it does cover the fundamentals very well. It also describes how to inspect welds (both destructive and nondestructive methods). I still have those in an envelope ready to go if you want them.

-Rok

 

[Alfredo Hernandez]

dont screw your self with a mig machine yes they are easier to learn but they dont have the penetration a stick machine does .. for a trailer i would only use a stick for the structural side of the build and for the fenders or any other panel i would use a mig

 

[rokdaddy]

dont screw your self with a mig machine yes they are easier to learn but they dont have the penetration a stick machine does .. for a trailer i would only use a stick for the structural side of the build and for the fenders or any other panel i would use a mig

A skilled welder can get full penetration with either process.

Giggity.

-Rok

 

[granitex]

I think that it important to know how to do both, they have different spacific applications but can both be used to do the same thing. I absolutly suck at welding upside down, and will never do it again without something covering my ears. Because there is nothing worse than having a littke ball of molten steel drop into your ear. Been there and I aint going back.

 

[rokdaddy]

^Agreed^ Stick is great for welding outdoors and for welding dirty/rusted workpieces. That blast of flux does a great job of trapping impurities and floating them to the top of the weld puddle. If I was repairing a trailer on the side of the road, stick would be king. If I was building a trailer in a shop, high amp MIG would be king. That's just my amateur but educated opinion... a pro welder more concerned with productivity and turnaround times may have an entirely different take on this.