Learning to weld
- Thread starter Diadaga
- Start date
- Location
- Western Massachusetts
Subscribed. I intend to learn to weld myself, but have no idea the differences between the types, what each one is preferred for, or how to do any of them.
- Location
- Bloomington, IN
Yup. MIG using flux-core wire is the easiest. It works indoors and outdoors and you don't need any shielding gas tanks.
- Location
- SW OK & formerly Eastern NM
AC welding is what I learned on in Ag back in high school. It's fairly easy but it's not as easy as mig welding. Basically you need to have your power set at the correct setting as not to melt your metal. With an AC welder you move in half moon motions as you drag the stick. **I think** and with the mig I believe you push **someone with more experience explain** I haven't done this since high school :zomg: And be very careful when doing anything with galvanized metal as the fumes are toxic. You need to be in an extremely well ventilated space and always wear a helmet! Make sure when you begin welding you notify everyone around you that you are beginning to weld *you can yell clear or cover* as it is harmful to everyone's eyes when looked at directly. This is very basic and pretty much all I can remember off the top of my head.
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
well, if you're military, go to the shop on base and they should have welders that you can actually use for free to teach yourself, I recommend at least learning the basics of arc welding (aka stick welding) as what you learn here will translate well for the other welding styles.
You can buy a decent arc/stick welder fairly cheaply and it can typically be turned up high enough that it can handle most any thickness of metals, which is very handy for bumpers and other such things.
For good precision welding you'll probably be best off with MIG welding (aka wire welding) and it's usually done with either flux core wire and no gas or solid core wire with a gas. The latter is the better choice, but, will obviously cost more. The reason the gas is better than flux core is that it reduces slag/splatter, which means it's a **MUCH** cleaner weld...
TIG welding is the final variety, and it's essentially the same as MIG welding with gas, except that the metal in the TIG welding is a non-consumable tungsten electrode whereas with MIG welding, the wire that's the consumable is the electrode (just like welding rods/sticks for arc welding are the electrode as well as the consumable)
MIG and Arc/stick are most common for non-shop applications, most high end fab shops most likely use TIG welding as it's most always the style that produces the cleanest welds.
You can buy a decent arc/stick welder fairly cheaply and it can typically be turned up high enough that it can handle most any thickness of metals, which is very handy for bumpers and other such things.
For good precision welding you'll probably be best off with MIG welding (aka wire welding) and it's usually done with either flux core wire and no gas or solid core wire with a gas. The latter is the better choice, but, will obviously cost more. The reason the gas is better than flux core is that it reduces slag/splatter, which means it's a **MUCH** cleaner weld...
TIG welding is the final variety, and it's essentially the same as MIG welding with gas, except that the metal in the TIG welding is a non-consumable tungsten electrode whereas with MIG welding, the wire that's the consumable is the electrode (just like welding rods/sticks for arc welding are the electrode as well as the consumable)
MIG and Arc/stick are most common for non-shop applications, most high end fab shops most likely use TIG welding as it's most always the style that produces the cleanest welds.
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
actually mac, you can push or drag either style, I typically pull with mig, and for thicker materials with arc, I have the tendency to push push pull, with the push being down into the metal junction, to ensure a good thick and hot bead the length of the weld.
- Location
- Huntsville, AL
I'll agree and say MIG welding is by far one of the easier methods of welding with no prior knowledge. The only problems I've ever had with MIG is not allowing the two surfaces I'm welding to melt together.
Behind that, I'm still touching up my TIG welding ability. Its pretty shotty at best. At that point its about being coordinated enough to feed wire by hand, manage the heat with your feet, and finding the right angle/distance from the material to keep a steady and consistent spark.
Its all about finding that middle ground.
Behind that, I'm still touching up my TIG welding ability. Its pretty shotty at best. At that point its about being coordinated enough to feed wire by hand, manage the heat with your feet, and finding the right angle/distance from the material to keep a steady and consistent spark.
Its all about finding that middle ground.
- Location
- Huntsville, AL
The zig-zags are to ensure that you are melting two surfaces together, which is the ultimate goal of welding.
Small circles, as I interpret that, you must mean the "stack of dimes" effect, which is the finish you achieve with filler rod as you weld your surfaces together. Am I mistaken?
Small circles, as I interpret that, you must mean the "stack of dimes" effect, which is the finish you achieve with filler rod as you weld your surfaces together. Am I mistaken?
The way I was seeing it used they were all talking about the initial weld.
- Location
- Huntsville, AL
OOhhhhh. Brain Fart
The circular effect is similar to the zig-zagging effect, just as you are stating. From a still novice point of view, I prefer to zigzag because I find that when I attempt to circle I end up piling up the filler rod (pardon my plain terminology) in select spots, creating an uneven look. Zigzagging allows me to keep myself from overlapping too much over one area, which could either result in the before mentioned scenario or burning through the metal completely.
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
I tend to circle and pool to start the weld then go from there, slowly jogging back and forth on the junction when mig welding, or, with thicker materials, especially when stick welding, like I said, push down into the junction a time or three then pull over a little and repeat the push process.
I haven't ever gotten the chance to try TIG, and from the sound of it, I wouldn't enjoy it as much. I'm saving up to get a good mig welder, I'll most likely run flux core but, I'll make a point of having what I need to be able to run solid with gas....
I haven't ever gotten the chance to try TIG, and from the sound of it, I wouldn't enjoy it as much. I'm saving up to get a good mig welder, I'll most likely run flux core but, I'll make a point of having what I need to be able to run solid with gas....
- Location
- Columbus OH
Whatever type you end up doing, MIG with gas, without, stick, TIG or the good old smoke wrench, practice practice practice. While it is good to learn all of the types, MIG and Stick are the ones that you want to start with. As far as the weld pool goes for pushing or pulling, it is situational and personal preferance as what works better for you in certain situations.
For MIG, if all of the settings are equal flux core will give better penatration than shielded with gas, but you will get spatter. Now you can get spatter gel and it works pretty well, but not like shielded.
I try to brake it down to field welding, and shop welding when I can.
Field welding, is outside in the wind. The pieces parts tend to be a little dirty and rusty and flux core works a little bit better, and you dont fave to think about the wind;
Shop welding I try to use shielded because I can clean everything better, cleaner power supply(which can make a huge difference). Controlled envionment, grinders, sand blast tank if it is needed. but the biggest thing is that I can turn up the juice, and go slower to get the proper penatration.
I am pretty lucky because I have access to a bunch of different welders and a couple of plasma cutters, so I can kind of pick and choose what one I need for the job at hand.
Some people get hung up on the stack of dimes thing. Pretty welds arnt worth a crap if they dont have proper penatration, I will take an ugly weld that is strong over weak pretty weld any time.
The one thing that I appreciate the most is an auto darkening helmet. You can get them at HF on sale all of the time and they work really well.
Stick some scrap together, put it in a vice and try to break it with a BFH. The bigger the hammer it takes to break it the better the weld.
For MIG, if all of the settings are equal flux core will give better penatration than shielded with gas, but you will get spatter. Now you can get spatter gel and it works pretty well, but not like shielded.
I try to brake it down to field welding, and shop welding when I can.
Field welding, is outside in the wind. The pieces parts tend to be a little dirty and rusty and flux core works a little bit better, and you dont fave to think about the wind;
Shop welding I try to use shielded because I can clean everything better, cleaner power supply(which can make a huge difference). Controlled envionment, grinders, sand blast tank if it is needed. but the biggest thing is that I can turn up the juice, and go slower to get the proper penatration.
I am pretty lucky because I have access to a bunch of different welders and a couple of plasma cutters, so I can kind of pick and choose what one I need for the job at hand.
Some people get hung up on the stack of dimes thing. Pretty welds arnt worth a crap if they dont have proper penatration, I will take an ugly weld that is strong over weak pretty weld any time.
The one thing that I appreciate the most is an auto darkening helmet. You can get them at HF on sale all of the time and they work really well.
Stick some scrap together, put it in a vice and try to break it with a BFH. The bigger the hammer it takes to break it the better the weld.
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
^^^ this is 100% dead on
when I learned the people that taught me harped on the "practice" and "first learn to weld, then learn to make pretty welds"
you can always grind a weld to make it pretty, but you can't make it hold better.
the auto darkening helmets/masks are great, but, if you aren't working in a fairly well lit environment, throw a shop light behind you aimed at what you're welding (or off to the side if that's better in your situation) because without it, you're still flipping your mask up so you can see what you're trying to start on and then flipping your mask down and hoping you didn't move your hand when you did it.
I never thought of the hammer trick, I started off welding steel cattle pens, so to test their strength I just jumped my fat @$$ on them a few times as hard as I could then smacked em with a 5lb hammer in each direction, if it came loose I re-welded it, if not, we called it good. My first big project that I've had to *REALLY* worry about weld quality has been the roof racks I've started making, and those...have turned out rock solid. We beat the welds with hammers, and even turned the rack up side down and slid it under a jeep's tire then dropped the jack out from under the jeep to test the strength of the welds, nothing bent, nothing broke, so, I call it a success. The more you weld, the more you'll learn, and as you learn, you'll get better and better at it.
The most annoying thing is when you have a welder with a very short (read "absofrigginlutely useless") duty cycle...the cheap harbor freight 220V mig welder is 8min on, 30 min off or some crap like that, so, it's great if you need to do little tack jobs, but, apparently you'll burn it out badly if you use it for longer periods of time.
when I learned the people that taught me harped on the "practice" and "first learn to weld, then learn to make pretty welds"
you can always grind a weld to make it pretty, but you can't make it hold better.
the auto darkening helmets/masks are great, but, if you aren't working in a fairly well lit environment, throw a shop light behind you aimed at what you're welding (or off to the side if that's better in your situation) because without it, you're still flipping your mask up so you can see what you're trying to start on and then flipping your mask down and hoping you didn't move your hand when you did it.
I never thought of the hammer trick, I started off welding steel cattle pens, so to test their strength I just jumped my fat @$$ on them a few times as hard as I could then smacked em with a 5lb hammer in each direction, if it came loose I re-welded it, if not, we called it good. My first big project that I've had to *REALLY* worry about weld quality has been the roof racks I've started making, and those...have turned out rock solid. We beat the welds with hammers, and even turned the rack up side down and slid it under a jeep's tire then dropped the jack out from under the jeep to test the strength of the welds, nothing bent, nothing broke, so, I call it a success. The more you weld, the more you'll learn, and as you learn, you'll get better and better at it.
The most annoying thing is when you have a welder with a very short (read "absofrigginlutely useless") duty cycle...the cheap harbor freight 220V mig welder is 8min on, 30 min off or some crap like that, so, it's great if you need to do little tack jobs, but, apparently you'll burn it out badly if you use it for longer periods of time.
- Location
- S.Subs of Chicago, IL.
Glad I found this...
I'm looking at buying a welder...HARD. Lincoln 140 to be exact. My garage doesn't have 220 and I'm not planning to add it. I'm not a welder but have had a few lessons from a friend. What are the downsides to this choice?
I'm looking at buying a welder...HARD. Lincoln 140 to be exact. My garage doesn't have 220 and I'm not planning to add it. I'm not a welder but have had a few lessons from a friend. What are the downsides to this choice?
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
biggest downside to a 120V welder is its lack of amperage, which means you aren't going to be welding anything that's very thick. Also remember if you do it, you SHOULD probably have an electrician come in and install at least 1, if not a few outlets that're on their own isolated circuit, and put a bigger breaker on it, so that you don't have to worry about popping breakers all the time while welding, and you can have fans/music/etc all going on their normal circuit(s)
that being said, I'm getting ready to do exactly that. I'm gonna grab a 120V mig or a 220V stick welder so I can quit using my neighbor's, either way, my garage is attached to the house, and there's 220V in the house already so, it's just a matter of having to add an extra outlet or two, or make a spare circuit for it.
that being said, I'm getting ready to do exactly that. I'm gonna grab a 120V mig or a 220V stick welder so I can quit using my neighbor's, either way, my garage is attached to the house, and there's 220V in the house already so, it's just a matter of having to add an extra outlet or two, or make a spare circuit for it.
- Location
- Rhode Island
Hey glad to see this thread started. My buddy and I went halfs on a mig 180 and are playing around with some scrap we got ahold of. Just laying beads and throwing parts together smashing them with BFHs. Sledge hammer couldn't break some of the welds.
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- Location
- Rhode Island
Weldingtipsandtricks.com some good videos.
A good idea I saw on JF. The fabricators always have scrap laying around and so if you pay for a flatrate box, they'll fill it up for you. Let's the new welders practice on tiny pieces. Might be a cool idea for around here?
A good idea I saw on JF. The fabricators always have scrap laying around and so if you pay for a flatrate box, they'll fill it up for you. Let's the new welders practice on tiny pieces. Might be a cool idea for around here?
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
uhh.....done! it's simple to do, you just have to try tbh. It took me 4 or 5 times of trying to get the hang of it, maybe I'm quicker than some, but, it's really not hard to do at all, you just need the practice/experience to know what your temp settings need to be
- Location
- S.Subs of Chicago, IL.
Ok, here is where you loose me. The description and specs for this welder says "up to 3/16" on single pass. 5/8" on multiple passes." What do you consider thick? And, if since I'm not planing to go larger than 1/4", why would I need a larger(as in the 180 model) or go to a 220 welder?
Also, where/how do I find the duty cycle for a given machine? I see people talk about it but never see it listed.
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- Location
- Columbus OH
Pick up a couple pair of insulated welding gloves, I have a pair that lives in the camping box. There is no better way to work a campfire, or Dutch oven than just reaching in the fire and picking up a Burning log to reposition it, or give one to a neighboring camper to get there fire going. Get two pair because you will need someone to hold something for you while you tack it together, and they are much more likely to help if they don't get burnt in the process.
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
well, the easiest way I can explain it is that the welder can't generate enough heat to be able to provide a weld with good penetration if the metal is very thick, QUICKLY. it's not that it can't, it's that it's not fast enough, you blow your duty cycle trying to get the weld started. (or at least that's the way it was explained to me, and it has made sense from what I've seen while trying to weld with my temp too low but wanting it there to have better control of blow through because I was working on tubing)
the duty cycle on some things is expressed in a percentage, for example, the cheap $230 welder I was looking at from home depot said it has a 20% duty cycle. I would interpret that to be that you can have 20% of an hour actively welding with 80% of an hour for cool down i.e. 12 minutes hot 48 minutes not.
the harbor freight 120V one is actually a little better, it's a 25% duty cycle, where the HF 240V one is only a 15% duty cycle at high temp....that kinda sways me, I may go buy one of the HF 110V ones just for the purpose of getting sh!t done that needs to be done.
- Location
- S.Subs of Chicago, IL.
Home Depot sells the Lincoln models 140/180/etc... I mention HD only because it's closest to me, them and Sears. However, Sears seems to be cutting back certain welders. For the money, Lincoln seems best for me, budget and project sizes.
I have that Lincoln welder.. You do get what you pay for.. I've owned and still own a cheap 90 dollar harbor freight .. It just can not get hot enough to burn in...
You want as high amp as you can get.. So if you have a 220 hook up in your house that would be best.. If not buy the largest 115 you can get
Sent from the satellite of love..
You want as high amp as you can get.. So if you have a 220 hook up in your house that would be best.. If not buy the largest 115 you can get
Sent from the satellite of love..
- Location
- Amarillo, TX
ok, so, after a bit of digging, that welder is a decent one, capping at 140A (normal max output at 90A) it's as good as the harbor freight 240V one, actually, a little better since that's 110A/80A, however, it's got the 20% duty cycle, in its favor though, it's an automatic one, you don't have to mess with remembering your timing, it automatically shuts down when temp rises above a certain temp and then turns back on once it cools adequately. The one thing I would say, you can do to improve the duty cycle is to make sure your welder is in a well ventilated place, and NOT right beside where you're welding. If you're going for a 120V welder instead of having a 240V outlet installed (or installing it yourself) make sure your 120V outlets have a minimum of 20 or 25A breaker, as that welder will pull 20A, if you don't have a strong enough breaker, you'll trip (or melt) it every time you start welding.
- Location
- Greenville SC
Another option if you have the time/money is a tech/community college. Some offer weekend/night introductory welding courses. I'm not saying they are all good, so check them out first, but its a chance to burn a lot of metal. I took 2 full semesters in Greenville Tech's welding program (a very top notch one), besides the classroom type stuff (blueprint reading and the like) I got in a full year of stick and tig (mig was 3rd semester, I quit before I got to it). I got to weld a ton, like ~3 hours a day 4 days a week. We couldn't bring our own stuff, you had to follow the curriculum in order, complete one position or joint before moving on to the next like plate in multiple positions and joints, then pipe etc. You would be amazed at what a good teacher can do for you though. I was struggling with tig overhead one day, getting really frustrated, the teacher walked in my booth without me noticing and watched me for awhile, when I went to start my next bead he told me to move how I held my elbow and change how I was moving my wrist, and all of a sudden I was nailing the beads without a problem.
- Location
- S.Subs of Chicago, IL.
I'll make sure...thanks for the info.
- Location
- S.Subs of Chicago, IL.
I did look into "formal" classes. Like you said you have to follow the schedule and it's time consuming. I did find someone who has allowed me to look over his shoulder so to speak. I've actually graduated up to my own time on scrap pieces when I get the time.
- Location
- Pearl, MS
I was a MIG welder for 2 years welding Toyota Tacoma frames. We used argon gas with our welders and I got good at running beads that were indistinguishable from the robot welders. Welding was my favorite job.
Main things we had to worry about was correct penetration, stickout, angle and not going offseam, anything beyond that is personal preference/technique.
Sent from my Galaxy S Showcase
Main things we had to worry about was correct penetration, stickout, angle and not going offseam, anything beyond that is personal preference/technique.
Sent from my Galaxy S Showcase
- Location
- Western Massachusetts
I just came across a welder for sale on CL, only $85 and it's in the town I work in...it's a Craftsman 100 AC Infinite Amp arc welder. Worth it to try and learn on?
- Location
- Columbus OH
For the price it would ba a great addition to any garage. While it might not be the heaviest or most powerfull welder, but when you get to stuff that is going to need better penatration, you can tack it together with this one, and finish with another heavier one somewhere else.
- Location
- Smyrna Tn
This is what I got, I love it. I am always thinking of new projects I want to do.
- Location
- Western Massachusetts
Pretty sure I'm gonna pass it up. If I'm going to buy something to learn with, I want something that can do it all (or at least handle the heavier jobs). Besides, it's not like I really planned to buy a welder right now, but I saw the deal and figured it may be worth it. There's lots of welders on the local CL right now, but most are way too big and waaay too expensive. Some nearing $4,000! Most are in the $200-$600 range.
Haha, and JUST as I post here, I find this ad:
"Sears 230 AMP Dual Range Arc Welder
3 Helmets
300 various size rods
2 pair gloves
Manual
Slightly used
Best reasonable offer"
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- Location
- Amarillo, TX
no such thing in my experience, the big ones can be turned down, and with them turned down you can use them longer compared to one that you're almost all the way up to run the max to get the same power.
that could be a good deal, though, the question is, do you want an arc or a mig, and that's really something you have to decide before you start considering buying a welder.
- Location
- Western Massachusetts
I just mean too big for me...for the amount of times the thing would really get used, the "big" ones I'm finding would just be a waste of a machine. As far as type of welder, I'm really looking to learn to MIG weld, but I'm still keeping options open and looking at/considering everything I find.