Revolver shackles

05x4x4

05x4x4

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Centerville, Texas
I was talking to a guy with a 1st gen Xterra and he was saying that the shackles will unload on you while driving down hill. My question for those of you with the revolver shackles is if you installed a small ATV style winch and sucked down the rear suspension a little when you approach a downhill section, do you think that would solve the unloading problem?




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robcarync

robcarync

Sliders
Location
Raleigh, NC
Well, I honestly don't believe there is an unloading problem. Do some google searching....Some swear it happens, some swear it is a myth.

I don't have them, but I think about it like this: In order for the rear to lift up/flex that much, there has to be an equal/opposite downward flex on the front end. Same thing side to side...in order for one side to unload, the other side has to be compressed...therefore, you may not have the shackle rigidly pulling on the drooped tire, but that isn't what keeps the rig upright...it is the compressed spring on the other end PUSHING UPWARDS that keeps your rig grounded. That pushing upwards part is still unaffected by the shackle.

Only way for the shackles to magically unload going down hill is if you are DANGEROUSLY close to flipping head over rear anyway. The only difference from the physics stand point is the weight of the axle pulling on the leaf springs. An axle is heavy and all, but if all you have is your axle weight keeping you on the ground, you are in trouble. By that point, if you are that close to flipping, you better be happy you packed your cooler and tool box properly too, because any shift could send you on your side.
 
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TheFauxFox

TheFauxFox

Titan Swapped / SAS'd
Founding Member
Location
Huntsville, AL
robcarync said:
Well, I honestly don't believe there is an unloading problem. Do some google searching....Some swear it happens, some swear it is a myth.

I don't have them, but I think about it like this: In order for the rear to lift up/flex that much, there has to be an equal/opposite downward flex on the front end. Same thing side to side...in order for one side to unload, the other side has to be compressed...therefore, you may not have the shackle rigidly pulling on the drooped tire, but that isn't what keeps the rig upright...it is the compressed spring on the other end PUSHING UPWARDS that keeps your rig grounded. That pushing upwards part is still unaffected by the shackle.

Only way for the shackles to magically unload going down hill is if you are DANGEROUSLY close to flipping head over rear anyway. The only difference from the physics stand point is the weight of the axle pulling on the leaf springs. An axle is heavy and all, but if all you have is your axle weight keeping you on the ground, you are in trouble.
Click to expand...

This.

It works out like a statics problem.
 
caseycamby

caseycamby

Suspension Lift
Location
Marion, NC
I would be interested to know more about the guys setup. The revolvers are made to be ran with the stock leaf pack (minus the overload leaf) and the 3 pack AAL. That makes the whole rear end stiffer making it harder to give way to the revolvers. However, if you just slapped some revolvers on the rear and that's it... I probably wouldn't be too surprised if it may unload on you, granted under some extreme situations.

I have the them on mine with the 3 pack AAL and I haven't had one ounce of problems. I plan on removing a leaf, or two, because my rear end is so much taller than the front so I'll be interested to see if I can feel any difference.
 
05x4x4

05x4x4

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Centerville, Texas
caseycamby said:
I would be interested to know more about the guys setup. The revolvers are made to be ran with the stock leaf pack (minus the overload leaf) and the 3 pack AAL. That makes the whole rear end stiffer making it harder to give way to the revolvers. However, if you just slapped some revolvers on the rear and that's it... I probably wouldn't be too surprised if it may unload on you, granted under some extreme situations.

I have the them on mine with the 3 pack AAL and I haven't had one ounce of problems. I plan on removing a leaf, or two, because my rear end is so much taller than the front so I'll be interested to see if I can feel any difference.
Click to expand...

What is you shock travel for those shackles?


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granitex

granitex

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
Columbus OH
The people who say that they magically unload dont own them, and have never seen it actually happen, but they sure as **** know somebody who has a buddy that it happened to.
 
05x4x4

05x4x4

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Centerville, Texas
I could t get the video to play. Glad to hear no one is having trouble though. I am still considering getting them.


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robcarync

robcarync

Sliders
Location
Raleigh, NC
Spring rate won't have an impact on the physics in the situation. They won't unload unless:

You drive very slowly to get your front tires over a speed bump...and floor it as fast as possible and bounce both rear tires up. You may...JUST MAY...get the body/cab to bounce up a little higher than the axle. If you did that with stock shackles, both retires would need to be airborne.

As stated, for them to unload, that means the CAB...IE the entire body and everything attached to it (cargo, seats, glass, etc) is trying to FLOAT away from the FRAME and AXLES like a balloon...but it just needs that EXTRA 100+ pounds of the rear axle to keep it grounded.

When you get into the side to side articulation, or even front to back...remember...it is NOT the shackle that PULLS the body down, but the opposite SPRING that pushes the body UP. Stock springs will push up on a folded revolver shackle the EXACT same way it pushes up on a STOCK shackle.

Look at the two photos I attached. One of my truck, one of Xterror04. Both have one rear tire hanging in the air. A revolver shackle in that instance does not allow the body to FLOAT up higher to the current position. It would let the airborne tire DROP lower to reach the ground. The cab is still supported by the opposite leaf springs. Throwing revolver shackles in there simply allows the axle to DROP more.

For a revolver shackle to UNLOAD...that means a stock shackle truck would essentially be AIRBORNE

It ends up being a purely physics conundrum...it seems logical at first...but if my 7 years of engineering education can't solve this problem, I should be fired from my job...for my inability to solve a physics problem, not for being on XN at work... :D
 

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robcarync

robcarync

Sliders
Location
Raleigh, NC
Haha no problem...wanted to clarify and reiterate regarding Casey's comment above about 3 pack add a leaf vs. stock springs.

No issues with revolver shackles on stock springs either.
 
05x4x4

05x4x4

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Centerville, Texas
Ok, so then it's settled. All I need to know is what travel shocks are needed to get the most out of the shackles.


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caseycamby

caseycamby

Suspension Lift
Location
Marion, NC
I just know on their website it says it was only tested with the 3 pack but I'm sure they kinda have to say that to cover their butts for crazy reasons haha. It seems like I read something about that somewhere, sometime haha but Rob know what he's talking about!
 
05x4x4

05x4x4

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Centerville, Texas
robcarync said:
Get the Bilsteins from 4x4parts.com for the 3" suspension lift! You won't regret it!
Click to expand...

I'm not a big fan of Bilsteins, I will be going with a Fox Racing 2.0 remote reservoir. The problem is Im probably going to relocate the rear shocks so I'll just have to get some measurements after I build brackets, but should I leave the shocks in the factory locations it sounds like I need some 12" travel shocks...


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Intender

Intender

Wheeling
Location
Lewisville NC
First off, I would never be able to do the backbone at moab. I am scared to death of heights and just watching that made me anxious.

As for revolvers, I have them right now, but the 3" bilsteins dont allow enough travel to use them. I have tested with them, and I get almost no extension of the revolver vs stock shackles. However I could see a in a crazy situation, such as the video above with some extremely long travel shocks where someone could get nervous and slam on the brakes and get some unloading happening, but in a realistic situation you wouldnt have enough travel from your shocks to allow them to open enough to cause any issues. like Rob pointed out, if you have revolvers, in almost any situation revolvers are going to allow your axle to droop more which will keep your center of gravity slightly lower than if you had one tire completely airborn. if you have ever been in a situation where your are going down a steep slope and ended up tetering on two wheels you can understand how they would be beneficial to you. And in almost any situation where you are climbing a hill and might lift a tire they are going to better for you in the end.

I personally plan on eventually getting either some 12" or 14" travel bilstein short body shocks, but in the meantime I think I am going to get some shock tabs and weld onto the axle to raise the lower mounting point up a few inches to get some extra travel. I still need to check the travel on my current bilsteins and make sure I can get full compression out of them with the lower mount raised so I dont damage them, but I am hopeful that it will work out in the end.
 
Jackel

Jackel

Bought an X
Location
Marianna, FL
Are there different sized shackles? For instance, would shackles that fit an Xterra fit a Tacoma? Or a YJ? Or does each individual vehicle have it's own size? I only ask because I can find NO revolver shackles for my taco.

Sorry to threadjack, btw!
 
05x4x4

05x4x4

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Centerville, Texas
Jackel said:
Are there different sized shackles? For instance, would shackles that fit an Xterra fit a Tacoma? Or a YJ? Or does each individual vehicle have it's own size? I only ask because I can find NO revolver shackles for my taco.

Sorry to threadjack, btw!
Click to expand...

It all depends on how they mount to the frame and if the bushings are the same. And then if your spring width is the same and location of the springs to the fame (offset)


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