Evap??

SnickerDoodle

Life's Better Seeing Pink
Founding Member
Location
Winlsow Twsp, NJ
What and where is a EVAP Canister/Purge Valve and what does it do?

My awesome orange Check Engine has been glowing with the code to for the EVAP Canister. I know nothing about it, nor could i find any info on here.
 

Jmac289gt

Sliders
Founding Member
Location
Dickinson, TX
Both are in the rear of your vehicle close to where the spare is. The canister is a black rectangelished box and the valve goes on it.
 

granitex

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
Columbus OH
is it a gross leak, or a small leak, do you know what the actual code is?

I have seen it from a tiny crack in the return line by the fill tube(caused by a body lift), a saturated canaster from someone trying to top off a tank after the pump shut off, or just the valve sticking on the canaster itself.
 

Cyclemut

Wheeling
Founding Member
Location
Morrison, CO
The Evap Canister is to pull the fumes from the gas tank so that they don't get vented into the atmosphere. The fumes get pushed into the canister by the natural action of the gas evaporating. The charcoal in the canister traps the fumes, but later on they get sucked into the engine while it's running at a higher rpm.

The lines get diagnosed via an Evap Pressure Sensor and the Evap Canister Vent Control Valve.

When the engine is running, the system will perform an evap leak check during certain times, like cruise speeds. It will close the Vent Control Valve on the canister, sealing the system up from that side. Then it will open the Purge Volume Control Valve (this is usually a duty-cycle solenoid but the computer will ground this out to open the system up to engine vacuum) and monitor the pressure sensor and see when tops out. Closing the volume control valve should lock vacuum into the evap system for a short period, calculated by the computer, depending on the fuel temp, fuel level, outside temp, etc. and the computer then determines if there's a leak. Figuring how fast the system loses vacuum over a period of time will determine if the system has a small leak or a gross leak. Cracked vacuum lines, a plugged purge line (due to the charcoal canister breaking up and throwing charcoal into the purge line, common!) or a bad vent control valve (also common due to rusted pintle shafts) can all cause either codes.

That's how the system works to diagnose the Evap system. Knowing how it works is necessary to diagnosing the system. I use a Mighty Vac with a special attachment to diag the systems while telling the computer to close the vent control valve (the purge volume control valve is normally closed). Then I monitor the pressure sensor, seeing if it drops off, doesn't go up at all or holds pressure. If it doesn't go up at all, I look for a line broken, cracked or off. Or I look at the purge volume control valve, pulling off the line going into it from the canister (it will have the green cap on it, on the driver's side, in the engine bay, goes into a solenoid). Pull the line off and look for little charcoal pieces inside the line, if it's there, the purge volume control valve will need to be replaced, along with the charcoal canister.

To check the vent control valve, you will need to pull the connector off, apply 12v directly to the valve and listen to hear if it clicks. Even if it does click, then you'll want to blow through it, with the voltage applied to see if it will actually seal. If it doesn't, then you will need to replace it.

It can be tricky, but with checking a couple of things, you can probably fix it with a little bit of diagnosis.

Sorry for the long windedness, I get that way.
 

SnickerDoodle

Life's Better Seeing Pink
Founding Member
Location
Winlsow Twsp, NJ
Thanks Mut. I actually know what it does and where its now located. I plan on taking a look at it this weekend coming up. Hopefully its just a hose and not anything to bad.
 

Cyclemut

Wheeling
Founding Member
Location
Morrison, CO
Thanks guys! I just like it when guys/gals can look at their own rig and fix it themselves. It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside, like a strong rum and coke. :D

Now I'm thirsty.
 

AnthonyS

Test Drive
Founding Member
Location
West Babylon, NY
My SES light went off too. Threw a code of P0456 which is a Very Small Leak. It suggest that it's a loose or faulty Gas Cap. So I tightened it. No Good. I replaced it with an OEM gas cap. Still the light is on. Disconnected the battery for 30mins. Still the SES light comes on. My next step is to possibly replace all the vacuum hoses. Maybe I should check for something wrong with the EVAP canister. I have a bad habit of overfilling. I've stopped that now.
 

Cyclemut

Wheeling
Founding Member
Location
Morrison, CO
Overfilling can cause an issue with the charcoal canister. It will saturate the charcoal with fuel and cause damage to the canister itself. Not to mention some of the vents in the tank.

When you tighten the fuel cap, the light won't go off immediately. The computer will check only during a "trip", which is a particular set of driving circumstances set up by the engineers so that the computer can do some fairly precise calculations that have to do with (but not limited to) the temp of the fuel, fuel level, engine rpm, etc. to determine if there is a leak in the vapor recovery system. Some vehicles, especially city bound units, will almost never see a "trip" as outlined. Commuter vehicles see "trips" a lot.

Check the stuff I listed earlier in the thread before ripping around and replacing a bunch of stuff that may not be part of the problem.
 

Jmac289gt

Sliders
Founding Member
Location
Dickinson, TX
Very good reply Cyclemut...once again!!

I see too many people waisting money on parts they do not need cause of guessing, take it to someone that has the ability to properly diagnose your issue...it is sometimes cheaper that way.
 

AnthonyS

Test Drive
Founding Member
Location
West Babylon, NY
I was going to attempt to use a Fog machine to run smoke thru the vacuum lines to see if there is a leak that I can't see with the naked eye. If that doesn't solve anything, then I'll crawl under the back end to see if there is a crack in the canister or maybe due to oversaturation, it may need to be replaced.
 

Cyclemut

Wheeling
Founding Member
Location
Morrison, CO
The smoke machine is good, but you'll need to close the evap canister vent control valve (on the canister) as well as the purge volume control valve at the front (the valve that the hose with the green cap on it connects to, also has a vacuum line going to the intake manifold from the same solenoid) in order to "fog" only the evap system.

If your fogger uses a sugar based fog, then you might chance getting the lines sticky and also coating the charcoal inside the canister. There are valve inside the gas tank as well that may not like a sugar coating either. If possible, use a non-glucose based fogging agent.
 

AnthonyS

Test Drive
Founding Member
Location
West Babylon, NY
I'll have to look at the solution that is used in the fogger. I'm not sure if it's sugar based or not.

I'm not that mechanically inclined to know how to close the evap canister or even purge the control valve.

Does the FSM cover doing this? The Haynes manual does not.
 

Cyclemut

Wheeling
Founding Member
Location
Morrison, CO
The FSM may cover it, although you may have to dig into the procedure for non-Consult diagnostics. I think that the purge volume control solenoid may be naturally closed, I looked at mine briefly today while pondering my next steps on the 350Z race car I was putting a clutch into this afternoon. I didn't get a vacuum source on the evap side at idle, so I think you only need to worry about vent control valve on the canister itself.

To close the vent control valve, just apply 12v to one side of the valve and a ground on the other side of the valve, with the connector off (don't want to fry the computer!) and you should hear an audible "click". It should click when you apply voltage to it. If it doesn't click, then the valve is faulty (probably your problem).

And by applying 12v/ground "sides", I mean one prong where the electrical connector goes (you'll know what I mean when you pull the electrical connector off, there will be 2 prongs sticking out at you) for voltage and the other prong where you apply the ground. It doesn't matter which prong you apply either too, as long as the electrical connector is not plugged in.
 

AnthonyS

Test Drive
Founding Member
Location
West Babylon, NY
It seems like any one of these 3 things could be the problem.

* A small leak in any of the EVAP hoses or fuel tank hoses
* A small leak in the purge valve or vent valve
* The EVAP Canister may be leaking

Now it's a matter of locating the problem. Is it possible to check the hoses with soapy water? Reason for this, if there's a vacuum leak, the leak should blow bubbles while the car is running. Or am I mistaken and the soapy water would be SUCKED into the leak?

I don't want to cause any damage to any internal workings. I still have to check the smoke machine fluid to see if its a sugar base or not.
 

AnthonyS

Test Drive
Founding Member
Location
West Babylon, NY
I think I found my answer on page EC-630 (Evaporative Emission Line Drawing) and it states Do NOT use soapy water or solvents while installing vacuum hoses or purge hoses.

So I guess using soapy water to find a leak is out. lol
 

Big E 515

Test Drive
Location
Chelmsford, MA
I had the same codes, it ended up being the gas tank. The large opening at the top was all corroded. We tried cleaning it up and putting a new gasket on, but more and bigger pieces came off. Thank you, road salt!
 

AnthonyS

Test Drive
Founding Member
Location
West Babylon, NY
I had used some GUMOUT fuel injector cleaner, fresh gas, new gas cap, cleared the codes and so far no more P0456 code and it's been over a month. I guess it was in fact the gas cap. I have a tendency to overfill as well. If the gas pump stops at $64.75, I'll push it to $65.00. But I've never actually overfilled where the gas poured out. I may have overfilled to the purge level on the EVAP. I'll eventually check for a crack in the canister if the problem ever rears its head again.
 
Location
MOORPARK
Just a heads up. I know that on some X's when you do the 2" body lift, there is a section of rubber hose on the evap line that goes along the frame and into the Eng Comp in the rear area of the Right front fender(behind a small head shield), that can get stretched and leak. When I did a body lift on the ORPP Xterra it cracked and kicked a evap code. Its pretty easy to check that...and even easier to fix. Might be worth a gander. When you are out next time take a look.Tthe hard line is made of plastic and the rubber hose section is about the size of standard rubber fuel line(what i used to extend/replace it with). Good luck
Let me know if you need a pic
 

NMTerras

Suspension Lift
Location
New Mexico
Just a heads up. I know that on some X's when you do the 2" body lift, there is a section of rubber hose on the evap line that goes along the frame and into the Eng Comp in the rear area of the Right front fender(behind a small head shield), that can get stretched and leak. When I did a body lift on the ORPP Xterra it cracked and kicked a evap code. Its pretty easy to check that...and even easier to fix. Might be worth a gander. When you are out next time take a look.Tthe hard line is made of plastic and the rubber hose section is about the size of standard rubber fuel line(what i used to extend/replace it with). Good luck
Let me know if you need a pic

Yeah, that happened to me on a 1" lift. I replaced with new tubing a few days ago, but my CEL is still on...should I reset it, or give it some more time to see if it clears?
 

Muadeeb

Nissan al Gaib
Admin
Location
Dallas
Clear it, and see if it resurfaces. If it's going to come back, it should be quick. Depending on how you drive it could take a while to self-clear.
 
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