Frogstar7055's Ivan build

TJTJ

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
NJ
At over 2" of lift, that's getting to about where I would start to worry about the shackle being long enough to reverse arch the pack on full stuffage.

Have you checked the up travel limit relative to where the pack is flat, etc?

Your shackle angle to the leaf pack looks spot on...but the reverse arch on full compression worries me.
 

TJTJ

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
NJ
Doesn't the overload spring negate that?

LOL

The OL acts like a road grader off road, so, typically, you ditch it for clearance purposes.

If you leave it on, yeah, it CAN help to fight that, or cause stress at its ends, depending upon how your compression cycle is positioning it.

If your pack cannot allow up travel because the OL is stopping uptravel, you lost articulation...and, the rig pitches up at that corner instead of staying more level while the tire rises....etc.


If you land (on a compression cycle...) coming down off a ledge, etc...and the OL is what stops your compression, the pack will tend to then catapult you back up, and your shock's extension valving will probably be a bit shy of being able to damp it....etc.



As I was wondering, since you were at the border of that sort of problem...I wanted you to test it, and see what was going on...so you could compensate if needed.

For example, as the shackles swing in/out...if they swing out ENOUGH, it might take up that slack and save your pack the travel past flat, etc.

Your shackle angle looked good relative to the leaf pack, so, confirming that works, would be great...and you'd call it a day. If the shackle can't swing out enough, THEN you need to think a bit.

:D
 

TJTJ

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
NJ
I see what your saying.
Can you recommend a way to test it?
Should I just jack a corner up?
And when do the bumpstops come into play?


If you look at your axle tube, below the stop sticking down from the frame rail, you'll see your remaining up travel (The rubber can crush a bit on impact/pressure, so there might be another inch or so, etc...). IE: The tube comes up until it hits/crushes that stop.

If you take a string, and run it from your pack's FRONT mount, to the rear lower shackle mount (to the pack)....you get your baseline.

Then, measure the distance down from that string to the top of the pack at (Under) the axle tube. That's how far up the pack can unbow w/o getting too excited.

So, you look at how far up it can go to hit the stop, and, how far is too fat to unbow...if the stop is still not hit, you have uptravel left, which is good for articulation.

If hitting the stop would mean the pack passed your baseline, IE: Unbowed and now reverse arching, the stop is allowing articulation, but not preventing reverse arching.

If the axle stops rising because the load leaf is acting as a defacto stop, that's bad for articulation.

If the load leaf is allowing the pack to pass the unbowing limit you'd want, then, you are still able to reverse arch with the OL in.

When that happens, the front leaf eyes get pretty stressed, and at the ends of the OL, the remaining leaf in support can get bent at that fulcrum point....and fatigue snaps start after a while in some cases. (They can happen even with none of this occurring too, but a reverse arch accelerates the process)


So, if the shackle swings out (To the rear), enough, it can relieve that, and allow the uptravel w/o the arch getting too bad.

If the shackle swings IN, you can find that off road at least, a stuffed tire can pop the pack into a reverse arch that binds hard against the frame rail, and which is a royal PITA to undo.

That's something you want to avoid. :sure:



So, yeah, back a rear tire, on each side, onto a decent ramp, load weights, etc, to get the compression hard to the stop....and note what you see.

I recommend undoing the lower shock mounts first too, as its a good time to see the compressed and extended lengths that work too.
 

Frogstar7055

Wheeling
Location
Jacksonville FL
Little bit of fun today.

[video=youtube;XSusUbMjaAM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSusUbMjaAM[/video]

[video=youtube;6lFFLUgylzo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lFFLUgylzo[/video]

[video=youtube;sLRMnqU4FG4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLRMnqU4FG4[/video]
 

TJTJ

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
NJ
LOL

In uppermost vid, you need a new spotter. He spotted the front tires only, forgetting the rears until the stuff hung up, THEN repositioned you, etc.

A good spotter positions the line not just the front tires, etc.

On the plus side, at least he did go look to see what the problem was after realizing there was one, instead of just telling you to use more gas or something.

:tunes:



Did you have a chance to do those tests?
 

Frogstar7055

Wheeling
Location
Jacksonville FL
Did you have a chance to do those tests?

Sorta.
I stuffed a wheel til leaf pack was flat, still had a couple inches to the bumpstop so yes I could conceivably reverse arch the spring.
After wheeling it this weekend I find it unlikely to happen but is something I'll need to address.
It's not like I'm taking off any sweet jumps or anything....lol.
 

KBC

Bought an X
Location
BC
Nice work, I'm jealous of the front bumper and rear locker and OBA and... ;)
Quick question on your steering setup, what kind of bushing are you using in the centre link for where you drilled it out for the bolt to go through? I'm going to have to hit the junk yard and see if I can find a spare centre link and idler/pitman arms to mod.

Cheers!
 

Frogstar7055

Wheeling
Location
Jacksonville FL
I pressed out the ball joint and straight shaft out of the centerlink.
I made oilite bushings and stainless sleeves so the double shear of the pitman and idler would not crush down on the bushings.




 

KBC

Bought an X
Location
BC
Cool thanks for the reply. I'll have to see if I can buy some bushings to fit since I don't quite have the tools to make bushings. Any chance you remember the ID after you pressed everything out?
 

Cruecible

Titan Swapped / SAS'd
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Frog, you're gonna have to tell me how you like that on board air setup. Every time I go wheeling, my two big "I wish I had" things are a tire inflation system and lockers lol.
 

Frogstar7055

Wheeling
Location
Jacksonville FL
This.......




Plus this......




Equals this......




Hill is small but is deeply rutted, is worse than it looks in pic,this is loose moist dirt.




Tried crawling it in 4wd, front locked rear open.
Lost traction and spun tires.
Locked ARB in the rear, crawled right up with zero wheel spin.
All in all I'm pretty stoked.

 
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