Help me pick a new cell phone [POLL]

[Oz_X]

EDIT: Got an iPhone 4 (was: Help me pick a new cell phone)

I'm limited to what is 'free' as my upgrade time is now. I've been used to Blackberrys, not by choice but because of either free as a work phone or other. The BBs are O K A Y , but I hate the trackball. The trackballs gum up and are never the same. I like the mechanical keyboard though. A perfect cel for me would have a mechanical keyboard and a touch screen. My wife has a Droid phone, when I use it I always accidentally touch the wrong thing and whatever I was doing disappears and it takes forever to get back to where I was. Thanks for your help.

 

[Yellow07s]

iPhone?

 

[Macland]

I can tell you that you get used to touch screens. I had an old Nokia forever until I moved and got service with a bigger carrier. Whenever I used to use my friends touch screen phones I would always hit the wrong place. He told me all about how I'd eventually get used to it and I did. Now I wouldn't have another one. And I much prefer a number pad style texting format over a qwerty style on a cell phone.

I'll let some more experienced cell phone buyers get in on the "which to buy" though.

 

[TN4x4Xterra]

Love my touch screen. Had a Blackberry and same reason you said about trackball gumming up, that was annoying but love my droid now.

Sent from my brain.

 

[AaronsX]

Im rocking the iPhone 3GS 8gb and I love it! Granted I have the memory full and its almost 2 years old so its a bit slow but I love it....and now that they came out with the new update a few months ago it has some cool new features. Plus with a scheduled update at AT&T you can get a new one for $1.

Touch screens are easy to get used to unless you have mammoth fingers lol, then you'll be hitting multiple keys. But also you don't have to worry about buttons gumming up, jamming, or breaking. I have a $3 otter box on mine and I have never cracked the screen. If you go iPhone a durable case is a must!

 

[dhyde79]

ok oz, here's my input as a verizon rep.

if you like your BB, get another one, ***BUT*** stop looking at the cheap @$$ phones. step up to the current models, if you like BB, get the Bold Touch 9900/9930, trust me, it's worth the $. It's such a huge jump in hardware it's not even funny. If you want something more "fun" get an iphone, but, not some damned 3G/3GS, get the current model, the 4S, why do I say to do that? It's simple, apple has a "current generation plus two previous" lifecycle of devices being supported for new software. when the 4 came out, they stopped supporting the original iphone, when the 4S came out, the 3G got no love, when the 5 comes out this year, the 3GS is dead to them, and so on. so, if you're gonna lock yourself into a 2 year contract for a new piece of equipment, spend the money and get something worth having not some old outdated piece of crap that's been replaced a couple times over. Think of it like this. If you're buying parts for your vehicle, and it's your DD, you don't go for the cheapest stuff you can, you go for the best bang for your buck. This means sometimes you spend a little more for something because it's going to be better quality. In regards to the iphone, the 4S is the first AT&T phone that has decent glass (the verizon 4 has the same glass as the 4S) and shouldn't break as easily as the previous generations. the AT&T 4 had some pretty serious antenna problems, even after they "fixed it" for a few too many people... as for the blackberry....if you have an old trackball blackberry, that means you have either a pearl, a curve 83xx, or a worldphone (88xx) series device. those all had a 312mhz cpu and if memory serves, on gsm, they were all 64mb of memory, the 9900/9930 is a 1.2ghz cpu (4x the speed) and jumps to 768mb of ram with 8gb of onboard storage, and it's touch screen with physical keyboard, and has the trackpad instead of the trackball so, no gumming it up.


oh, and since I just re-read your original post....it seems like you're looking for something very much like the 9900/9930 so.....there ya go.

as far as which one, only you can answer that....if you'd like, PM me and I'll run you through the step by step as if you were in my store and I were selling you one....pose the questions that make you look at your usage and evaluate what you really need in the phone and so on.

 

[Oz_X]

ok oz, here's my input as a verizon rep.

if you like your BB, get another one, ***BUT*** stop looking at the cheap @$$ phones. step up to the current models, if you like BB, get the Bold Touch 9900/9930, trust me, it's worth the $. It's such a huge jump in hardware it's not even funny. If you want something more "fun" get an iphone, but, not some damned 3G/3GS, get the current model, the 4S, why do I say to do that? It's simple, apple has a "current generation plus two previous" lifecycle of devices being supported for new software. when the 4 came out, they stopped supporting the original iphone, when the 4S came out, the 3G got no love, when the 5 comes out this year, the 3GS is dead to them, and so on. so, if you're gonna lock yourself into a 2 year contract for a new piece of equipment, spend the money and get something worth having not some old outdated piece of crap that's been replaced a couple times over. Think of it like this. If you're buying parts for your vehicle, and it's your DD, you don't go for the cheapest stuff you can, you go for the best bang for your buck. This means sometimes you spend a little more for something because it's going to be better quality. In regards to the iphone, the 4S is the first AT&T phone that has decent glass (the verizon 4 has the same glass as the 4S) and shouldn't break as easily as the previous generations. the AT&T 4 had some pretty serious antenna problems, even after they "fixed it" for a few too many people... as for the blackberry....if you have an old trackball blackberry, that means you have either a pearl, a curve 83xx, or a worldphone (88xx) series device. those all had a 312mhz cpu and if memory serves, on gsm, they were all 64mb of memory, the 9900/9930 is a 1.2ghz cpu (4x the speed) and jumps to 768mb of ram with 8gb of onboard storage, and it's touch screen with physical keyboard, and has the trackpad instead of the trackball so, no gumming it up.


oh, and since I just re-read your original post....it seems like you're looking for something very much like the 9900/9930 so.....there ya go.

as far as which one, only you can answer that....if you'd like, PM me and I'll run you through the step by step as if you were in my store and I were selling you one....pose the questions that make you look at your usage and evaluate what you really need in the phone and so on.

wow - great reply. I am really loving this site. Let me discuss your post with the mrs. Thank you so much

 

[dhyde79]

no problem. I assume you're AT&T since I didn't recognize any of the phones you posted other than "iphone" or "blackberry"

if they have something similar to the motorola droid pro that verizon carried that's a touch screen with blackberry 88xx series physical keyboard...

BUT...as the guy that fixes cellphone problems, I typically steer people toward phones that're as low maintenance as possible. the exception is the blackberry. if you've carried one for a while, you know the ins and outs and that knowledge typically makes them low maintenance, as opposed to someone that's never had one and is trying to make it do what an iphone or android would do without knowing how to keep it happy. (I like to think of blackberrys as carburetors. they're great, and they serve a very specific purpose, and if your needs fit that purpose first and foremost, then it's what you should have, but, they have their own set of quirks that you have to keep in mind or you're going to have problems.)

 

[yellowbug]

If your want a rugged go through anything smart phone look at the Casio commando. I haven't had an issue except for syncing it to my computer.

 

[drbandkgb]

iPhone here.. I have always hated apple.. Till my first iPod.. Now I own 3 iPods a iMac and my iPhone.. I know android people love the fact they can tinker with it.. I need a phone that just works.. And syncs with my computer.. Any newer phone will sync with email, and the Internet pretty easy. To me blackberry is very old school. They never seemed to advance with users needs. If you can hold out I would wait for the gen5 iPhone.. From what my wife says its due to hit June some time. She works as a issue solver for. Verizon.

Either way the buttons are all going away and you h screen is here to stay..


Good Luck in your search


Sent from the Apple iPhone. It's ggggggreat !

 

[AbuseTheElderly]

I too have switched from android to iPhone. I have the 4s and Dave is right, it just works. No crashing, freezing or slowing down, period. I owned the Blackberry Curve 8330 for about 2 years, hated it. Then I got a Samsung Galaxy S Showcase, it lasted a year before I was just tired of it, mostly due to software issues with Android 2.3 (data and messaging issues along with freezing and slow performance). I have had my 4s for about a month and I have not witnessed a single hiccup. The menus are so fluid and there is no lag in anything. You can tell it is a powerhouse, and Siri is the best part about it.

Oh, I almost forgot that the iPhone 4s is also universal. It is the first cell phone to actually work on CDMA and GSM networks. I am with Cspire, which is CDMA, and my iPhone has a micro sim card slot (required for GSM networks). Once unlocked (which is free and legal) one could use it on almost any carrier, AT&T, Cingular or Verizon etc.

 

[Oz_X]

To me blackberry is very old school.

A cel phone or 'smart phone' is a very personal device. It is almost always with you. I think in simple terms, personal preference on platform boils down to (3) distinct personality types:

Blackberry = Business (management, sales, accounting, etc)
iPhone = Academia (professors, teachers, admins, students) and Creatives (Artists, designers, writers, musicians)
Droids = Techies (IT professionals, programmers, hackers, web developers, etc) and, well, nerds in general

Maybe a few categories I missed but in my observations those are the 3 groups most folks fall into.

 

[Oz_X]

OK what about a Apple iPhone 4 - 8 GB - Black (Refurb)? its 49 bucks. My wife and I are upgrading at the same time. So, versus a 4S (200.00 x 2) we're looking at $100 vs. $400. I can live without Siri's charms for 300 dollars. Thoughts ?

 

[AbuseTheElderly]

Ok, you can get the iPhone 4 and ADD Siri to it, just needs to be jailbroken (completely harmless, free and legal). They look identical but the differences in hardware is night and day between the 4 and 4s. The 4s has a harder glass, dual core 1ghz A5 with dual core graphics, Bluetooth 4.0, an upgraded camera with auto focus and face detection(8 MP pictures, 1080p video) and the ability to port the phone to any carrier (available in 16gb-64gb versions). The 4 has a single core 1ghz A8, locked to a network type (GSM or CDMA), same screen, 5MP camera (720p video) and Bluetooth 2.1 (Available in 8gb-32gb versions).

What it boils down to is unless it is going to be your all-inclusive mobile entertainment center, the iPhone 4 will do fine. If you will be gaming on the go or using it to watch TV/Movies during car trips then you should go with the 4s.

 

[Oz_X]

Ok, you can get the iPhone 4 and ADD Siri to it, just needs to be jailbroken (completely harmless, free and legal). They look identical but the differences in hardware is night and day between the 4 and 4s. The 4s has a harder glass, dual core 1ghz A5 with dual core graphics, Bluetooth 4.0, an upgraded camera with auto focus and face detection(8 MP pictures, 1080p video) and the ability to port the phone to any carrier (available in 16gb-64gb versions). The 4 has a single core 1ghz A8, locked to a network type (GSM or CDMA), same screen, 5MP camera (720p video) and Bluetooth 2.1 (Available in 8gb-32gb versions).

What it boils down to is unless it is going to be your all-inclusive mobile entertainment center, the iPhone 4 will do fine. If you will be gaming on the go or using it to watch TV/Movies during car trips then you should go with the 4s.

That is all really great info - appreciate it much. OK time to go into a huddle with the wifey

 

[AbuseTheElderly]

No problem, glad my dorky-ness could help someone.

 

[Muadeeb]

Whatever phone you get, get an Otterbox for it. I can chunk, at full force, my phone at a cement floor and have no ill effects.

 

[AbuseTheElderly]

Thanks for adding that. I didn't take my 4s out of the box for the first 7 hours I had it because I didn't have an Otterbox. I didn't know before I got it but the front and back of the phone is glass, so twice the chance for damage. My iPhone came right out of the box and into an Otterbox Defender.

 

[dhyde79]

OK what about a Apple iPhone 4 - 8 GB - Black (Refurb)? its 49 bucks. My wife and I are upgrading at the same time. So, versus a 4S (200.00 x 2) we're looking at $100 vs. $400. I can live without Siri's charms for 300 dollars. Thoughts ?

Oz....that question is equivalent to asking if you should buy a couple sets of used tires that you have to make work for 2 years instead of buying new ones. if you're gonna go for the 4 instead of the 4S at least buy new ones instead of used ones. no company has a good history of refurb phones being anywhere near as good as new ones.

Ok, you can get the iPhone 4 and ADD Siri to it, just needs to be jailbroken (completely harmless, free and legal). They look identical but the differences in hardware is night and day between the 4 and 4s. The 4s has a harder glass, dual core 1ghz A5 with dual core graphics, Bluetooth 4.0, an upgraded camera with auto focus and face detection(8 MP pictures, 1080p video) and the ability to port the phone to any carrier (available in 16gb-64gb versions). The 4 has a single core 1ghz A8, locked to a network type (GSM or CDMA), same screen, 5MP camera (720p video) and Bluetooth 2.1 (Available in 8gb-32gb versions).
What it boils down to is unless it is going to be your all-inclusive mobile entertainment center, the iPhone 4 will do fine. If you will be gaming on the go or using it to watch TV/Movies during car trips then you should go with the 4s.

ok, lets try to clear up a few things here.....

• 1. the iphone 4 currently only comes in 8gb, apple stopped production of the 16 and 32gb sizes.
  
• 2. jailbreaking IS legal, however, doing so is an instant and PERMANENT void of warranty (so, unless you're sitting on $550+ to replace your phone if/when a warranty related issue comes up, I suggest against Jailbreaking, and no, no matter how well you "unjailbreak" your phone, you can't clear the device's log file which is what apple uses to check for jailbreak and decide on warranty)
  
• 3. the 4S comes with bluetooth 3.0 not 4.0, there is no 4.0 at this time, and the 3.0 support on it is VERY limited from what I can tell, as it doesn't support any added range like it should, at least not with the one BT3.0 headset that verizon carries...
  
• 4. the 4S can NOT be ported to any carrier, once it's activated on any given carrier it is permanently tied to that carrier (trust me on this, I spent the better part of 4 hours on the phone with apple's advanced support team trying to figure out how to get a verizon 4S unlocked so it could be moved to AT&T for a customer, in the end, the ONLY version of the 4S that can move carrier to carrier (and even then, only GSM carriers, which, AT&T is the only supported GSM carrier in the US) is the "unlocked" model that you have to buy directly from apple, and it won't work on CDMA (verizon/sprint) networks.)
  
• 5. the durability only changes if you're dealing with a GSM iphone4, the verizon version is the exact same materials as the 4S, but, you're right, the 4S is MUCH stronger than the GSM 4 was.

that being said, let me touch on a few bigger reasons NOT to go for the 8GB 4.

• 1. the OS takes 1/4 of the space before you touch the phone.
  
• 2. it's already the "old generation", so, you're that much closer to having "unsupported hardware"
  
• 3. look at the difference between the 8GB 4 and the 16gb 4S closely. for the extra hundred, you get the improved materials, the better processor, the much better camera and video camera, siri (take it or leave it, it's quite handy when you need your hands free, I did a nice demo for a customer earlier and she was absolutely amazed at just how in depth you can make siri work just by talking to it), and, the fact that you have the device that the software version either one will be running was MADE to run on, not something it was made to work with, mostly.

if the cost is absolutely an issue and you simply can't stretch it, then get the 4's instead of the 4S's but remember, what you buy now you're gonna have for 2 years, so, look at it and decide if 5ish gigs of usable space is enough or if you need 14ish gigs of usable space, cause that's the other side of it, iPhones (unlike most other smartphones) are a fixed memory size, so, what you buy is what you're gonna have, there's no "oh I'll put a bigger card in if I run out of space".

One of my favorite things to point out is this. If you get a mount and put it in the X, it can replace a gopro heroHD because the 1080p videocamera on it is more than adequate for recording trail runs and so on. It's not just a phone, it's a portable piece of "does anything you want to make it do".

Whatever phone you get, get an Otterbox for it. I can chunk, at full force, my phone at a cement floor and have no ill effects.

agreed, and get one of the dry install zagg invisible shield (full body) screen protectors on under that otterbox too. though, I don't recommend throwing an iphone at full force, otterbox or not.

 

[Muadeeb]

I don't recommend throwing an iphone at full force, otterbox or not.

Gotta admit, though; it's a very effective demonstration. My case is a little scuffed up now, but my entire office has purchased them. I'm also the guy who's gone through 4 phones in 5 years.

 

[dhyde79]

oh yeah, I throw my storm 2 around in its otterbox all of the time, but, either full force for you and full force for me are vastly different, or, I'm severely under-estimating the build quality of an iphone, because I don't think that even an otterbox can save it from death....cracking solder points, breaking the glass, all of those things can still happen through an otterbox...(ask me how I know about the cracked solder points, one of my speakers and my headphone jack are both offline because of a 140' drop)

 

[J Everett]

I would definitely recommend the iPhone 4. I just made the switch to an iphone after a couple of years with an HTC Hero. I only thought I loved Android. The iPhone blew me away with how much better everything works. And the touch screen keyboard is leaps and bounds beyond that of of the Android. My wife has an HTC EVO, which is a pretty powerful Android phone, but the iPhone 4 is still better.

 

[AbuseTheElderly]

Uh, all info I can find about the 4s says its bluetooth 4.0. Jail breaking does void warranty, if they see it. It's completely reversible with a restore in DFU mode, it takes 10 minutes. It removes all traces of a jailbreak. Upon more research, the sim card slots of all iPhone 4s can be unlocked by the service provider to allow international sim cards. They do not unlock it for domestic carriers due to the current anti-consumer cell phone market.

 

[dhyde79]

well.....I'm not going to say you're wrong, all of the apple training materials that I have for doing apple device trainings for customers (I'm my store's Apple Device Expert, and received all of my training directly from apple for it) just say bluetooth so we assumed that it was 3.0 since that's what the new android devices are coming out with, and since that's where the new blackberry devices are headed too. After going out and doing some digging, if it is in fact 4.0 that would explain why none of the BT3.0 headsets work any better than a regular BT1.1 headset would, because, it seems that BT4.0 is a wifi-related version instead of an upgraded regular version of BT. it's aimed to try to be an NFC alternative as well from what I've read up on it.

I have to wonder if BT4.0 is another "apple trying to set the next standard so that it's in their favor" like 802.11g and 802.11n....


as far as being able to remove all trace that the phone was ever jailbroken, I challenge you, jailbreak one, remove it the way you're talking about, and then take it to an apple store that has technicians, tell them that you purchased it off of craigslist and you were told it was never jailbroken and ask them to check for you. They have a program that reads a system log that cannot be cleared and it checks for all forms of jailbreaks.

 

[Oz_X]

OK - got a brand new iPhone 4 (8 gig). Thanks for everyone's input, helped a lot.

FOUND out an interesting, but infuriating, thing about sales tax, here's my 'live chat' convo with ATT:

AT&T sales representatives are happy to assist you with your questions. Click below to begin your live text chat.

AT&T sales representatives will not have access to your personal account. This service is provided to you under AT&Ts Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy.
You are not currently in a chat session.
You are now chatting with Richard, an AT&T sales representative.
Richard: Welcome to AT&T online Feature Sales. How may I assist you with your features today?
oz: Yeah hi
oz: Im upgrading to an iPhone 4
oz: im at the checkout
oz: WHY is there sales tax of $42.62?
Richard: I will be happy to help you with that.
oz: Richard are you a bot or a real person?
Richard: California is one of the states that require us to charge tax on the full price of the phone, not the discounted price.
Richard: I'm very real...
oz: ok good
oz: thanks
oz: BUt Im not paying full price
oz: so ???
Richard: I'm glad to get you to our Online Sales Team that would be happy to help with this. Just a sec..
Please wait while I re-assign the chat to the proper team who will be glad to assist you with your needs.
You are now chatting with Jessica Pc., an AT&T sales representative.
Jessica Pc.: Welcome to AT&T online wireless sales support. My name is Jessica, how may I assist you with placing your order today?
oz: hi
oz: why the 42% sales tax?
oz: anyone there?
Jessica Pc.: It may be because of the state you're in. Some states still charge taxes for the full price of the phone instead of the discounted price.
Jessica Pc.: What state are you from?
oz: Hmmmn, really doesn't make sense
oz: California
oz: I go buy a car, at a discount - I don't pay tax on the full price of the car ?
Jessica Pc.: It's a policy from your state, not from AT&T. We're required to charge the taxes based on what state you're from. California is included in the few states that charge taxes for the full retail price.
oz: That's insane
oz: Alrighty, my fight is not with you
Jessica Pc.: Well, we can't change it, it's the law. We have to charge the taxes, I'm really sorry.
oz: No prob, thanks
Jessica Pc.: Okay, do you think you'd still like to go ahead with your order, Oz?
oz: Yeah
oz: begrudgingly
oz: OK looks like Ill have to start over
Jessica Pc.: That's good, I'm glad you'll still place your order, Oz. Is there a problem that is making you need to start over your order?
oz: timed out
Jessica Pc.: I'm sorry, you may be able to retrieve your cart in the checkout.
Jessica Pc.: Do you want to try that?
oz: Hey quick question - will the transfer from my unlimited data plan for my BB be seamless to the iPhone?
Jessica Pc.: Yes, it should be seamless, if you're unable to transfer it in your account, then you only need to call Customer Service to have it transferred.
oz: ok thanks Jessica
Jessica Pc.: No problem, Oz! If you like, I can stay online with you in case you have any other questions or concerns. That way we can ensure your order goes smoothly.
oz: I think I'm good - thanks for your help
Jessica Pc.: Okay, sounds good, Oz. You're welcome to chat with us again if you need anything.
Jessica Pc.: Thank you for choosing AT&T. Please click the close button to end this chat. Have a great day!
oz: You too!

 

[dhyde79]

wanna take bets on you losing the unlimited data? they're SUPPOSED to take it away, the newer iphones aren't supposed to be allowed on unlimited data plans because they "use more data" and create more of a congestion problem. especially since the 4S was named the most data hungry device on any carrier

 

[TN4x4Xterra]

Glad you got the Iphone.....let us know how it works out for you.

I never did like the online chats with the reps, you can't even tell if you're talking to a real person or a bot at first....that's annoying.

 

[TN4x4Xterra]

wanna take bets on you losing the unlimited data? they're SUPPOSED to take it away, the newer iphones aren't supposed to be allowed on unlimited data plans because they "use more data" and create more of a congestion problem. especially since the 4S was named the most data hungry device on any carrier

That's why I haven't bothered with the Iphone....I love my unlimited data plan so I will just stick with it and whatever upgrades to droid version I get as long as I keep that plan.

 

[RATTFINK]

We lost another to crapple. sigh lol

 

[Maxterra]

Love my iphone 4 16g!
Need more memory now as 1000 songs about have it all full up!

Just my portable compact pc/brain/calendar etc.

Love how it works with my pioneer 4300-something car stereo. Bluetooth hands-free phone is awesome and automatically links up whenerver the stereo is on.
Plug in the apple-data cable and I have all my iphone music on the stereo. Hardly ever listen to radio anymore.

 

[drbandkgb]

The only radio I listen to is sports talk.. Other than that I set my play list or hit shuffle

I love syncing my emails on it
Simple and it works.. Welcome to the iPhone club

 

[Oz_X]

The only radio I listen to is sports talk.. Other than that I set my play list or hit shuffle

I love syncing my emails on it
Simple and it works.. Welcome to the iPhone club

Thanks! Can't wait to get it. My son is happy to get my old BB too.

 

[Muadeeb]

Just don't drop it. I fixed my first 4-CDMA yesterday and it SUCKED. On the 3's you go in through the front, so glass replacement is easy (15-30 min cuz I don't buy the mounting frame). On the 4 you go in through the BACK and have to remove everything to undo 10 screws holding the LCD and Digitizer; took me 90 minutes, next time will be faster. Also, the LCD is glued to the Digitizer so you're looking at a $50 part there.

 

[Oz_X]

Just don't drop it. I fixed my first 4-CDMA yesterday and it SUCKED. On the 3's you go in through the front, so glass replacement is easy (15-30 min cuz I don't buy the mounting frame). On the 4 you go in through the BACK and have to remove everything to undo 10 screws holding the LCD and Digitizer; took me 90 minutes, next time will be faster. Also, the LCD is glued to the Digitizer so you're looking at a $50 part there.

Thanks - I've been shopping Otter boxes today. Hey does anyone know of the clip thingy comes off the otter box ?

 

[dhyde79]

the belt clip is always a separate, it's a holster.

 

[AbuseTheElderly]

Which series of Otterbox? There is a Impact Series (just silicone sleeve), Commuter Series (silicone + plastic shell) and Defender Series (silicone + plastic shell + belt clip), all of which are not interchangeable. For instance, you can't take the Commuter Series case and use it with the Defenders belt clip, also the Defender case is much more protective than the Commuter. I personally went with the Defender.

BTW: Congrats on the new phone!

 

[TheFauxFox]

the belt clip is always a separate, it's a holster.

Not always. My OtterBox came with the belt clip. I'm not partial to them, but it works fine and is secure enough for daily use.

 

[dhyde79]

Not always. My OtterBox came with the belt clip. I'm not partial to them, but it works fine and is secure enough for daily use.

ok, let me rephrase, the belt clip is never part of the actual otterbox case, it's always a separate piece.

 

[TheFauxFox]

ok, let me rephrase, the belt clip is never part of the actual otterbox case, it's always a separate piece.

Ah, yes. That is correct.

 

[AbuseTheElderly]

as far as being able to remove all trace that the phone was ever jailbroken, I challenge you, jailbreak one, remove it the way you're talking about, and then take it to an apple store that has technicians, tell them that you purchased it off of craigslist and you were told it was never jailbroken and ask them to check for you. They have a program that reads a system log that cannot be cleared and it checks for all forms of jailbreaks.

Since reading this I have done a lot of research due to the possibility of my understanding of jailbreaking being wrong, and there is not a single reference to this log anywhere on the internet. I'm not doubting what you said, but for that to be true all IOS devices would need an eeprom or nand/nor flash, some type of non-volatile memory to store the log. From what I understand there is only one data-storage chip in IOS devices which is completely erased when restored in DFU mode (due to that being where the entire IOS is stored). I haven't been able to find a single account on the internet where someone took an IOS device into apple and was turned away due to it previously being jailbroken (I did find tons of stories of people being turned away for being smokers around their Apple products). I even read a few where they took their IOS devices in jailbroken and they either shook their finger at them and replaced it anyways, or told them to take it home and unjailbreak it then bring it back. I would really like to know more about this log in IOS, who better than an Apple tech? Thanks for the info.