3" SL alignment specs?

[KBC]

I'm picking up some new tires next week but I will be installing a new Grassroots centre link beforehand so I can actually get an alignment. Last time I took it in for an alignment they couldn't do it properly so I've worn down the outside edge of the tires faster than normal (too much positive camber). No big deal as I had some used MTRs that were cheap but now I need some winter rater tires so Duratracs it is.

Here's the steering/suspension set up I will have;
AC 3" SL
Grassroots CL
HD tie rod adjusters
New ball joints.

I also have the diff drop, idler arm brace and 2" BL but that doesn't affect steering.

Should I be getting an alignment to factory specs or something else?

Thanks!

 

[KBC]

This is what I found over at ClubX. Apparently Cyclemut came up with these numbers. Anyone else running something like this?

1. Set the Camber to 0°, or as close to it as
possible.

2. Try for getting the Caster to be between 0.3° and
0.6°, set differently between the right and left
side, with the left side being less than the right.

It doesn't matter what the Caster is, just as long as
you get the most Caster you can on the right
side, then set it so the left side is less by 0.3°
to 0.6°

Camber = 0.0°L.....0.0°R

Caster = 0.9°L.....1.2°R

Toe in = 0.08"L...0.08"R

Total toe = ...0.16"

 

[Bklyn.X]

Yeah, those look familiar…
I tried to use the “Lift specs” above and every tech I ever spoke to just gave me a blank stare and then told me they could not do it.
Most shops can’t get their equipment on my truck because of the over-sized tires.
I found a local alignment shop that does commercial truck alignments the old school way;

…without lasers and all that stuff. Where drive onto a rack and the tech climbs down into a pit…they adjust, drive it, then adjust, etc.
Best alignment since the truck was new and cheapest.

 

[SRStaff]

Those are the specs you listed. Try to get some negative camber. The 0 degree still wears the outside of the tire. I am running .20 degree negative camber and it helps.

 

[TJTJ]

Cyclemutt's specs work fine, and, if the shop knows how to use the equipment, lasers and all, they can do it even with off road tires, etc.

American Tire for example over by me in Hamilton, NJ can do a full Hunter alignment on my rig, even with the spacers, lift, 33's, etc.

The shops that can't don't really know how their equipment works...and they just plug in the make model year and so forth.

 

[Prime]

That's the problem with most shops. The people who work there don't know to operate the equipment past what the computer tells them to do. And when you get into the chain shops, their rules won't let the hourly guys do something that's against what the computer says.

I've always had mine aligned to factory specs and I've never had an issue.

 

[TJTJ]

That's the problem with most shops. The people who work there don't know to operate the equipment past what the computer tells them to do. And when you get into the chain shops, their rules won't let the hourly guys do something that's against what the computer says.

I've always had mine aligned to factory specs and I've never had an issue.

They managed to get it to factory specs...or, they got as close to them as they could and called it a day?

 

[KBC]

I had it done to factory specs last time and the outside edge wore much faster than the rest. I found a local independent shop with a good reputation that has lots of experience with lifted vehicles that can do it for me. He told me that the Nissan factory specs are crappy to start with so they don't usually use them even for stock vehicles.

 

[Prime]

They managed to get it to factory specs...or, they got as close to them as they could and called it a day?

They were able to get it pretty damn close. But I have over 30k on my duratracs and they're wearing super even.

 

[robcarync]

The "Lift Specs" are:

1) Zero camber
2) Right side caster maxed out while still having zero camber. Left side slightly less caster to compensate for road crown while still maintaining zero camber
3) Stock toe in which is 0.08 inches each side, or 0.16 total INCHES of toe...which equals about 0.32 degrees toe in

Compare to stock specs:

Camber: Factory Service manual has minimum of 0.1 degrees and maximum of 1.1 degrees camber each side

Caster: 1.7 - 2.7 degrees

Toe In: Exact same for lift or non lift

Bottom line is: the lift specs are basically the same as stock specs, except we specify zero camber for better tire wear...and since camber and caster are both controlled by UCA bolts and are competing objectives.....we prioritize and sacrifice some caster to keep camber low...so at 0 camber, you may only be able to max out the passenger side to 1.6 degrees, etc.

Toe in is independently adjustable with the tie rods...so that doesn't impact camber or caster.

I got mine done at Firestone. The guys aren't the most knowledgeable for custom alignments, but they have great customer service at my location. I was in the shop explaining exactly what I wanted done and they were willing to listen and let me go back to the rack and help out the tech.

I ended up with 0.2 positive camber and 2.1 caster on each side. Perfect toe in. Best alignment I have had since lifting. Grass roots center link was the key in getting a reliable alignment...the stock style has too much play that the measurements changed drastically just backing it off the rack and re-loading it on. Not the same with the grass roots center link. I had outer edge tire wear on previous alignments, but it isn't the specs, I don't think. The stock style center link is unreliable at holding the tie rods and the front edge of the tires properly, that even if the computer says it is aligned, it changes constantly while driving due to the play in the ball joints, studs, and the flexing of the center link on the arms. Toe in causes bad outer edge tire wear...and I think the toe in is the culprit when the center link flexes, as that essentially shortens the tie rods and brings the front edge of the tires inwards.

I have researched and studied these alignment specs to no other. The lifted alignments aren't much different from stock, other than we specify we want as close to zero camber as we can. Everything else more or less lands in the "green zone" that the computer will show.

 

[KBC]

Thanks for the input Rob. Your advice and your steering build are a large part of the reason I've decided to put together what I have.

 

[robcarync]

Yeah man! Happy to help. When I learn something about Xterras or need to solve a problem...I have a hard time turning my brain off until I have over analyzed and learned everything possible on the subject. Always great if I can save others some time and help spread the knowledge.

 

[KBC]

I got everything installed in the past couple days. There is a noticeable improvement/difference even without having got an alignment yet. The only issue is that the steering wheel doesn't return to centre too well but I think that should be fixed with the alignment. I ended up re-using the stock ball joints because they seemed to be in good shape.

I have my winch and skid plates on now so over the next week I'm going to tweak the torsion bars as they settle and then take it in for an alignment.

 

[robcarync]

I noticed the same characteristic with my steering set up (not wanting to return to center). Most of it is due to the friction between the bolted surfaces on the idler/pitman arms and mating surface of the center link. It is bolted tight and has a lot of friction that is required to over-come before the system turns and pivots. The tires returning to center is from the pavement pushing on the tires, over-coming the friction in the steering links, and finding the "equilibrium" point. The tightly bolted surfaces mean that the pavement has to push harder on the tires to return to center, since the grassroots link doesn't rotate as easy.

One thought I had was maybe putting a third large hardened washer between the arm and the center link bearing to reduce the friction somewhat. I had not tried any extra washers on mine yet...but after I put a few miles on it, it seems to be a bit more smooth and return to center a bit easier. It took a bit to get used to it as any slight movement on the wheel would actually steer the truck...which I guess is the one thing that was nice about all the slop in the stock system...it is desensitized a bit with slop.

I think an alignment and some more miles will break it in nicely.

 

[KBC]

It seems a little better after a couple days of driving. The idler and pitman arm are both hard up against the bearing inner races so they should turn freely in the bearings, there shouldn't be any contact with the outer sleeve or else you are asking for trouble. Basically you should be clamping the inner races of the two bearings with the washer under the bolt head and the two arms.

 

[robcarync]

I would have to double check mine, but I thought I remembered the ends of the spherical bearing being nearly perfectly flush with the outside edge "thrust surface" of the 1/4" wall DOM tubing when I put a straight edge over them. The inner race has such a small thrust surface area, I would not have expected that to be the mating surface to the arms. I was under the assumption based on what I saw that the spherical bearings were more so for load bearing and strength, and the DOM was sliding through the rotation on the top side of the arms. That was why I was thinking some sort of hardened washer may reduce the friction between the arm and center link bearing/sleeve.

Looked like the ends of mine were spray painted too, so I am sure once it gets worn in some it will rotate a bit easier. Mine got a lot easier to handle after several days of driving.