NEWB suspension questions...

[mnutz]

Lots of newb questions from me here.

Found this tidbit in the Xterra FAQ on the Automotive Customizers discussion board...

"Shackles are another way to lift the rear of an X, but not as commonly used any more due to the problems they introduce in the rear springs. A shackle is bolted to the rear of the leaf spring and they create lift by making them longer. Due to leverage, a 3" shackle will produce approximately a 1.5" lift. They are not used as often anymore because they actually create two problems. First and foremost, the leaf springs on an X are designed to provide a nice smooth ride on the highway. That softness allows the shackles to put a negative arch on the backside of the spring pack, reducing their life on the vehicle exponentially. The second problem with them is they lower the rear departure angle when off-roading. Do not use shackles on a factory pack if the plan is to pull a trailer or carry heavy weight in the back of the X on a reglar basis."

I know lots of you have lift shackles on your X; so is the above info paranoid BS, or is there anything to it?

I know the lift, tire size thing has been beat to death on other boards. It looks to me like everyone who runs 32s does the PML. Is there just not enough fenderwell left for 32s if you don't do the PML? Also do I have to get longer shocks for the PML, or will the factory setup be adequate?

I read somewhere that the front to back height difference should be 1 and a half inches. Where is the rake measured from?

The back end of my 2001 X seems more than high enough, there is a lot of gap between the fender lip and the top of the tire. Not so much in the front though. It looks like I could crank my t-bars a ways and still have plenty of rake. I'll post a photo tomorrow.

I'm about to buy new tires. I'll probably go with 31x10.5x15 GY Duratracs, unless I can do BFG AT KO 32x11.5x15 without many issues. If I can do it with just a slight t-bar crank that would be ok. Or do 32s without a PML look weird? All tire, no fenderwell?

Thanks for your patience and help!

 

[drbandkgb]

Depending on the year 2000-2001 have 3 springs and a helper.. The 2002-2004 have 2 springs and a helper..
Shackles allow you to keep flex in the rear.. The more leafs you add the less flex you have.. Also the more spring you have in the rear the better the Xterra will tow..

Really you need to plan what your building for...

I have read both sides of the shackle fight and do not see them hurting.. More than likely your springs are starting to wear some now.. And will sag over time anyways.


Sent from the satellite of love..

 

[drbandkgb]

And if I had to pick a 32" tire vs a 31... I'm going 32" everytime.. Once you start modding and lifting the 31s will look small


Sent from the satellite of love..

 

[TJTJ]

On the old jeeps, etc, if your shackles were TOO long, it COULD reverse arch the leaf pack. One CJ I was with out at Paragon many years ago everse arched the pack so hard, we had to leave the jeep and come back the next day.

On the Xterra, the shackle would have to be about 9-10" long to do that...essentially, the shackle would have to hold the lower leaf pack so low, that the axle could rise higher than the pack ends.

Shackles take stress OFF the pack by swinging in/out, so they don't increase wear on the pack. Off roading, and all the extra flexing - CAN increase wear on the pack of course, but, that's normal.


Some off road related myths die hard. Anecdotal evidence is absorbed and passed along as if it were meaningful.

This is one reason why humans, who have a tendency as a species to assume if things "happen ~ at the same time, they must be related"...report things like "I went to the store and I bought a quart of milk instead of my usual 1/2 gallon, and on the way home, a guy tee-boned me....I'm going back to getting 1/2 gallon!"

Or

"I installed a radio shack CB, and then my rear leaves sagged, so I'm getting a Midland CB now instead"

Or

"I installed an AAL (Or shackles, or a lift kit, or a antenna ball, etc...) and then my rear leaves started to sag....so I removed it"




IE: Everyone's leaves might sag, just like t-bars, coil springs, etc...and, everyone alsways blames whatever they did or happened before that as to why.



Even with the axle fully stuffed against the bump stops, with a 6-7" long shackle, the pack is still not fully flat, let alone reverse arched....so, for an Xterra at least, and for the available shackles...its just not a real concern.

Same for reduction in departure angle, if the leaf pack arches down lower than that leaf end, the leaf end is not the limiting factor.


As for tire fitment...it depends on the trimming.

31's fit with about no trimming if the BS is 5.5"....and with cutting metal and using a BFH to pound back what left, if the BS is more like 3.5".

32's fit with just snipping off some front wheel well plastic at the rears of the front wells inside the well where the lower front mudflap screws into....with 5.5" of BS on the rims.

33's fit the same way with 5.5" of BS if you don't care if it rubs a lot, and jambs the front wells on full compression, etc (The rears still fit stock fine)....and better if you remove the fenders, or, do a BL to raise them up out of the way.

A suspension lift (SL) like a PML only makes more room at ride height, and that room goes where your lap does when you stand up if you go over a bump, or corner, or otherwise compress the suspension/make the tire rise into the wheel well.

So, a PML is cheap and easy, so people do it...and if getting larger tires, well, why not. It not NECESSARY to do a PML to add 32's....its just so easy, they do it anyway to make the entire package that much better.


As for the rake, you want it nose down ~ 1-1.5", and you measure that at the front and rear of the steps (Or sliders) to the ground. You do Pass and Drivers sides, because if not parked on a perfectly level surface, you get funny results....and this lets you average it out, etc.

 

[Jmac289gt]

If your anything like the rest of us your going to want to do a suspension lift and bigger tires and a body lift to finish it all off. You must think about these things before making any expensive purchases, if you don't plan on doing bigger tires and both of those lifts then getting 31's is going to be okay.

But if you do 31's are going to be a little on the small side, if you can afford to upgrade the tires a little down the road when you do the lifts then no big deal.

I went with an AAL in the rear when I did my 3" lift from A/C but now after a year later im going to add the shackle with it.