front limited slip locker

Intender

Intender

Wheeling
Location
Lewisville NC
I would say wheeling hard or not, having a locker up front can reduce the risk of snapping a half shaft. The biggest risk for breaking a cv comes from suddenly catching traction while the wheel with least traction is spinning fast, and drooped. having the locker means that both wheels will be getting equal power and spinning at the same speed. open front will cause the front end to hop meaning you can be in a situation where one front wheel can catch traction with all the power going to the front on just that tire instead of an equal distribution of power to both tires. unless your front end is set up wrong and letting the front cv get in a situation where it can bind to begin with it will not increase the chances of breakage.
 
M

mac11

Bought an X
Location
Nashville
BKxterra718 said:
Covered from one side... Just sayin...
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Fair enough. I'll respond to this point you've raised quoted below, and I'd also like to ask beyond this what is the other side? I'm truely interested as I've not had the axle issues you reported.

Also, didn't I see you had an ARB locker? Does that reduce your risk of snapping an axle shaft while wheeling vs. this design?

BKxterra718 said:
IMHO CV half shafts are not strong enough for this. If you wheel hard that is...
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I believe I saw someone had upgraded axle shafts available? If not, that's something we should talk about as well.
 
BKxterra718

BKxterra718

Bought an X
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Intender thats correct from what i understand but sounds more like poor driving skills rather than not having lockers. But hey im still a newb here, just not afraid to ask questions...
 
BKxterra718

BKxterra718

Bought an X
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Mac 11 i have no upgraded axles. I have no lockers. But i wheel as hard as my daily driver allows me to. I get my cv's from rock auto at a whopping $25 each. Great deal right! Needless to say at that price, I keep 4 spares on the truck at all times. They've all been good to me, not to say I wont be sad to see one go.
The major point or question i was askin ya'll my brothas, is why would you want to have a locker on your front that you have no control over. and those CV's guys, those poor little CV's they like chicken wings... Trust me, cause i got me some chickens
9ejytusy.jpg
 
M

mac11

Bought an X
Location
Nashville
I think there might be a bit of a disconnect with TJ throwing around the phrase "they never unlock" because that is exactly the terminology lokka uses on their website when describing exactly the mechanical conditions TJ does.

And I think you are too rigidly holding onto the phrase "don't have control of it"

When in reality there is a control mechanism built into the design to unlock a wheel that is being over run of the driveline while simultaneously keeping the opposing wheel from under running the driveline, or in other words staying powered.

when you say "wheel hard" what exactly do you mean? Do you mean attempting challenging obstacles? Or are you using a heavy footed approach? Or something entirely different? I'm just guessing here.


BKxterra718 said:
Mac 11 i have no upgraded axles. I have no lockers. But i wheel as hard as my daily driver allows me to. I get my cv's from rock auto at a whopping $25 each. Great deal right! Needless to say at that price, I keep 4 spares on the truck at all times. They've all been good to me, not to say I wont be sad to see one go.
The major point or question i was askin ya'll my brothas, is why would you want to have a locker on your front that you have no control over. and those CV's guys, those poor little CV's they like chicken wings... Trust me, cause i got me some chickens
9ejytusy.jpg
Click to expand...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
T

TJTJ

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
NJ
BKxterra718 said:
Mac 11 i have no upgraded axles. I have no lockers. But i wheel as hard as my daily driver allows me to. I get my cv's from rock auto at a whopping $25 each. Great deal right! Needless to say at that price, I keep 4 spares on the truck at all times. They've all been good to me, not to say I wont be sad to see one go.
The major point or question i was askin ya'll my brothas, is why would you want to have a locker on your front that you have no control over. and those CV's guys, those poor little CV's they like chicken wings... Trust me, cause i got me some chickens
9ejytusy.jpg
Click to expand...


I get the confusion.

I mean the locker is always locked, but that the side that doesn't need to be locked can freewheel if you are turning...so, you can call that unlocking one side at a time.

It can't unlock BOTH sides at the same time though, one or both tires are always pulling you.


As for no control, you have no control over the open diff either...if you did, why would you have zero wheel drive on purpose?

In other words, the open diff is mechanical, and, it is automatically pulling with the faster tire and idling/free wheeling the slower tire....without you being able to control it.


That's what is there now...no control.


If you COULD control it....what would you have it do instead? Perhaps you'd want at least the one tire with traction to pull you? Would that be one of your choices? Would there be a time where you'd CHOOSE to have NONE of the tires pulling you?


So, obviously, there's nothing wrong with a front ARB, they are tried and proven and shown that a front locker in an X is a killer app.


You have to unlock both sides to make a sharp turn of course, as it the case with any fully locked front end....and you can, with the air powered dash switch...at will.


For the cost of the tube and manifold to run to the locker and that dash switch, you can have a locker....and, yeah, you don't control it any more than you controlled the open diff its in.

Its just that the open diff you didn't control would lose all pulling for you if one tire slipped...and the Lokka keeps pulling you.

Essentially, if you want to look at it this way....


The open diff drives the tire with the least traction, or both, and the Lokka drives the tire with the most traction, or both.

(Contrary to some misunderstandings, the open diff drives both tires equally as long as one of them doesn't slip, and its when one is airborne/on something with less traction that transfers the torque to the faster/tractionless tire)


So, for the times you DO slip:

If your being able to control the diff would make you PICK driving the tire with least traction if one slipped, choose an open diff.

If your being able to control the diff would make you PICK driving the tire with the most traction, choose a Lokka.


If you have the spare cash, and are OK unlocking for tight turns, its hard to beat the ARB....otherwise, its hard to beat the Lokka.


I ALREADY HAVE an installed front ARB btw....in my '01.

:D


I have seen people blow open front diffs...no locker or LSD. There's nothing about the gears for your CV meshed by a locker vs meshed by the open systemm that damages CV's differently.

If you are go go juice happy, you are simply more likely to break stuff....no matter what, you are more likely to break stuff.


One factor about a locker is you need less speed to power over things....ESPECIALLY if you can pull your self over, and are NOT counting on brute force and momentum to carry you over.

You can creep over things that you USED TO need to bump or hit hard to clear....because you have a locker.


So if you drove hard and broke stuff because you NEEDED to to keep up/get over things, you can now creep over them with more finesse and less violence.

If you never had to drive that hard, or, possessed enough skill to finesse over the obstacles w/o drama, you tend to break less.


I am not famous for wheeling in a slow, ginger fashion...I have been described as doing more rock racing that rock crawling, but, there is a method to my madness, and, I have, in ~ 4 DECADES of off roading, starting with jeeps and other trucks, had a total of ONE off road drive train break downs (unless I count alternators and that crap, and when I hydrolocked: I mean diffs, axles, CV, etc...)....and that one break down was a Jeep D35 rear end that the C came off and make the axles slide out of the tube, because I over did it on a snowy hill and that's why it broke...back in 1999 or so, and it didn't have a locker :D

So if you know what you're doing, and drive intelligently, you are less likely to break stuff. No one is immune from breakage of course, but in the context of locking or not, even if you have chicken leg CV's, they might break with, or with out, a locker in there.

So you can drive more carefully and get over more stuff with a locker than you can get over with an open diff and running at the obstacle and slamming it....so, overall, you COULD break less than with an open diff.

If you want to save your CV's, the locker might help.

:D
 
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BKxterra718

BKxterra718

Bought an X
Location
Brooklyn, NY
mac11 - no sir. If this thing had an on/off switch that would mean you had control over it. I wasnt directly sayin ya'll dont wheel hard, because I dont even know you guys. Im sayin if you did, why would you want an automatic locker? It was just a question chief.
nmxterras - no sir, not a skinny-anything lover my man.

$300 is an attractive deal for something like a locker. Im aware everybodys different in how they wheel and what priorities they have for their rigs. Personally being realistic while keeping my X my DD, after lifting it to the max, full armor, a growing tool collection, a growing spare collection, recovery tools, and many various other upgrades, that $300 can go to more important and essential things. Like on-board air, on-board power, rear manual locker, hmmm maybe some new headers, wait wait, how bout new gears ya?

Its kinda like photography ya see, you can have the latest equipment, best lenses, all the fancy attachments, but its the person's eye behind the camera that takes the best pictures.
 
T

TJTJ

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
NJ
BKxterra718 said:
mac11 - no sir. If this thing had an on/off switch that would mean you had control over it. I wasnt directly sayin ya'll dont wheel hard, because I dont even know you guys. Im sayin if you did, why would you want an automatic locker? It was just a question chief.
nmxterras - no sir, not a skinny-anything lover my man.

$300 is an attractive deal for something like a locker. Im aware everybodys different in how they wheel and what priorities they have for their rigs. Personally being realistic while keeping my X my DD, after lifting it to the max, full armor, a growing tool collection, a growing spare collection, recovery tools, and many various other upgrades, that $300 can go to more important and essential things. Like on-board air, on-board power, rear manual locker, hmmm maybe some new headers, wait wait, how bout new gears ya?

Its kinda like photography ya see, you can have the latest equipment, best lenses, all the fancy attachments, but its the person's eye behind the camera that takes the best pictures.
Click to expand...


Correct, the nut behind the wheel is always the best upgrade.

BTW - the chicken pic is a little blurry.

;)
 
Cyclemut

Cyclemut

Wheeling
Founding Member
Location
Morrison, CO
It's a lunch box locker, that's all. I hate them! I had one in the PhoeniX with the D44 up front and the spool in the back. Couldn't make it through a small ice patch at all. It wouldn't keep traction without slamming my steering wheel side to side. And that was with manual hubs, 4Lo, 35's on FLAT ground! The one thing you have to keep on hand is the replacement pins that go inside. They're small, with a tiny ass spring behind them. In a regulate IFS rig, I wouldn't run one. First wheeling trip and you'll WASTE your idler and center link, no bull****. And get used to noise too, as they pop and snap like a Detroit in the back of an automatic. You won't like it.

But that's just my opinion, from experience.
 
M

mac11

Bought an X
Location
Nashville
Hey guys, just heard back from Mark at Lokka. He wanted me to let you all know the discount code for the locker is good/valid but will not go live until this weekend as they have some configuration work to do on the back end. Hold off just a couple more days.
 
T

TJTJ

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
NJ
BKxterra718 said:
Ha, good one!

Wait a sec, are you the same TJ in NJ we did the 3" body lift for?
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LOL

I was waiting for you to remember me.

:D



Edit - The pics loaded too slow, that's a yes!

:D


Did you see Tom's pics yet?

You came out good.

:D
 
TKDx00

TKDx00

Lockers Installed
Founding Member
Location
S.Subs of Chicago, IL.
HAHAHA...When I first read it I said...but there's 3 people there. Didn't notice what the last line said. Thought it was the build thread. Good to have 2/3 of a face to put with all the great info I've gotten. thanks.
 
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T

TJTJ

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
NJ
TKDx00 said:
HAHAHA...When I first read it I said...but there's 3 people there. Didn't notice what the last line said. Thought it was the build thread. Good to have 2/3 of a face to put with all the great info I've gotten. thanks.
Click to expand...


I posted those pics already in my build thread for the 2004, but I didn't have some of the new ones....Justin shows up to a mod day with more camera equipment than tools, and he still has a lot of tools.

:D
 
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