Which Welder To Buy For Basic-intermediate Use?

AlbatrossCafe

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Western WA
Hey ya'll. I've had situations pop up over the last few years where a welder would be a nice-to-have. Situations range from small applications (fixing a crack in my coilbucket, welding a tab to a bumper) to occasional medium-sized projects (building legs for a bench) mixed in. Nothing too fancy.

I took a welding class in high school about 12 years ago and found that wire-feed welding is pretty hard to mess up. I don't want to mess with TIG/stick welds. So here are my questions...

  1. I'm interested in MIG welding with gas and flux-core gasless welding. For the welders do both, is it as simple as adjusting a setting and plugging in a gas line when you want to switch?
  2. What size welder would be sufficient as a "one size fits all" package... I'm thinking 140?
  3. Is a Harbor Freight special worth it, or should I spring for better? E.g. https://www.harborfreight.com/MIG-140-Professional-Welder-with-120-Volt-Input-64804.html



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maillet282

If you bleeding, Imma fix you
Moderator
Location
Ontario Canada
I have a Lincoln 140. It can do fluxed core and gas. From my understanding To transition from one to another it’s as easy as changing the filler wire and opening up a bottle of gas ( I’ve never used mig gas yet but when I picked up the welder it came with the regulator for the gas.)
 

JeffPro4x

Hot Pipe
Super Moderator
Supporting Member
Location
Glenside, PA
I have a 120v gas/fluxcore. Can't remember brand off the top of my head but it works nice. Can do up to 3/16" with flux core. To swap, you need to change wire, the shielding cone on the gun and reverse the polarity of the gun. Mig is electrode positive (reverse polarity). Flux is electrode negative (regular polarity)
 

TerryD

Total Tease
Supporting Member
Location
Covington, Va
Miller (Hobart is house brand) or Lincoln.

If it'll run off 120V, skip it.

Make sure it'll run a spool gun.

You'll eventually need to weld something big.

You're eventually going to want to weld aluminum.

You're either eventually going to want to fix it or sell it...

I have the Hobart Handler 185. Wish I had the 187 with integrated spool gun controls or the 210...
 

AlbatrossCafe

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Western WA
Miller (Hobart is house brand) or Lincoln.

If it'll run off 120V, skip it.

Make sure it'll run a spool gun.

You'll eventually need to weld something big.

You're eventually going to want to weld aluminum.

You're either eventually going to want to fix it or sell it...

Skip 120V? I don't have 240v installed anywhere in my house.... :(

The 140A size ones claim they can do 1/4" steel and most can do aluminum with a spool gun attachment. What is bigger than 1/4" steel? Most of our aftermarket bumpers use that. Even so, I've been reading you can do thicker with multiple passes if you really need?

I don't need any stuff for my X at this point. This is purely just for dumb little projects lol
 

TerryD

Total Tease
Supporting Member
Location
Covington, Va
Skip 120V? I don't have 240v installed anywhere in my house.... :(

The 140A size ones claim they can do 1/4" steel and most can do aluminum with a spool gun attachment. What is bigger than 1/4" steel? Most of our aftermarket bumpers use that. Even so, I've been reading you can do thicker with multiple passes if you really need?

I don't need any stuff for my X at this point. This is purely just for dumb little projects lol
How old is your house that its just 120V?

My great grandmother's 1800s log cabin had 240V in it for the oven.
 

13ADVX

Bought an X
Location
PA
You cannot go wrong with an Eastwood welder. I think I spent just under $400 and it was a 120V welder. I loved that thing but....I traded it for a tattoo when I got rid of my project car a few years ago.
 

dixie1865

Bought an X
Location
Lockport, IL
How old is your house that its just 120V?

My great grandmother's 1800s log cabin had 240V in it for the oven.

We don't have 240 in our newer home. The dryer, stove, etc... are natural gas.

I have a Hobart 210 MVP. I can run it off a normal outlet and when I get around to running 240 to the garage, I can still use it with that
 

TerryD

Total Tease
Supporting Member
Location
Covington, Va
We don't have 240 in our newer home. The dryer, stove, etc... are natural gas.

I have a Hobart 210 MVP. I can run it off a normal outlet and when I get around to running 240 to the garage, I can still use it with that
I would bet the house is still fed with 240. Just because you don't have any 240 outlets doesn't mean it's not there.
 

AlbatrossCafe

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Western WA
Everything is gas for me as well. 240v in my house aside.... it seems like a massive inconvenience compared to 120v for the kind of stuff I want to do. Like I said, I'm not welding anything huge. If I buy something cheap enough (~$500 seems to be the price point for these entry models) I can always sell and buy something bigger if I need it. That's what I'm thinking anyway.

You really don't think I can get by with a 140A 120v piece? Multiple passes isn't gonna cut it for the occasional thicker steel I might mess with?
 

TerryD

Total Tease
Supporting Member
Location
Covington, Va
Everything is gas for me as well. 240v in my house aside.... it seems like a massive inconvenience compared to 120v for the kind of stuff I want to do. Like I said, I'm not welding anything huge. If I buy something cheap enough (~$500 seems to be the price point for these entry models) I can always sell and buy something bigger if I need it. That's what I'm thinking anyway.

You really don't think I can get by with a 140A 120v piece? Multiple passes isn't gonna cut it for the occasional thicker steel I might mess with?

My advice is to get the 240V. I can't justify it to you any better than "I grew up on a farm where I did welding with a 240V AC stick welder. I've worked on project vehicles and projects around the house and farm for years and when I got my own house I spent the money and got a 240V Hobart 185 MIG welder and just recently purchased a Lincoln AC/DC 240V stick machine. I've been very happy with my decision."

And

"I wish I had paid the extra and got the spool gun ready machine"

And

"I wouldn't want a 120V welder"
 

AlbatrossCafe

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Western WA
Miller (Hobart is house brand) or Lincoln.

I have the Hobart Handler 185. Wish I had the 187 with integrated spool gun controls or the 210...

I'm now learning that the Hobart Handler MVP 210 is dual voltage 120v/240v. Reviews tell me that model is easy to learn for beginners and can accommodate pretty much anything. I can start with 120v while I figure out how to get 240v to my garage. A few hundred $$ more than I'd like to spend initially but it seems like a more desirable model for resale if I end up not getting a lot of use out of it.

Barring any terrible review that I read in the next few hours I'll probably spring for it. Thanks for the suggestion ;)

https://www.amazon.com/Hobart-Handler-210-MVP-Welder/dp/B004USV5UC?th=1
 

BCXterra

Bought an X
I just picked up a flux core mig welder, 120v 20amp, for $179. It was 65% off at Canadian Tire. Apparently it’ll do up to 3/16”.
No where near as skookum as the big welder we have at work, but great for me to repair muffler, tack weld stuff together, make brackets etc. And the price was right.
 

jsexton

Need Bigger Tires
Location
Lewis Center, OH
i have a hobart handler 190. I have the spool gun too but have never used it. Get one that will do gas - its much easier and almost no cleanup than flux core. I thought 240v was worth the extra over 120v. Ran a dedicated line to the garage for the welder.
 

robcarync

Sliders
Location
Raleigh, NC
I can comment on harbor freight welders.

They are OK for the cost.

I had the $89 120 volt one. I actually don't recommend this one. 90 Amp. It can weld maybe 1/8" thick. The biggest thing is the arc quality since it is an AC output. That is how it is so cheap, they skip out on an AC to DC converter (as well as some capacitors to smooth out voltage fluctuations, and an indcutor). It is very weld splattery, and this one runs flux core only. I got this one first because I didn't want to deal with running a 240 volt outlet. There are actually a lot of people that hack the welder on weldingweb or something like that...add all the extras to make it weld better. In my opinion, it is better to spend that effort and run a 240 volt outlet to get a bigger welder.

I eventually ran a 240 volt outlet in my garage and upgraded to the Harbor Freight Mig 170. It is SIGNIFICANTLY better, more powerful, and the arc quality is significantly better since it has a built in AC to DC converter so the arc stability is so much better. The settings are pretty basic, but you have two toggle switches (Min / Max and 1/ 2) that select the power output, and then you adjust the wire speed to get the weld you want. It has a basic gas hook up (nipple fitting basically). I never use it though, I just run flux core.

The Harbor Freight Mig 180 is largely the same as the Mig 170, except it has a knob to more finely select the power output (as opposed to the 4 options with 2 toggle switches on the Mig 170).

For any harbor freight welder, I recommend ditching the weld wire and getting Lincoln flux core wire as it seems to weld much better.

I welded up my rear bumper with the 120 volt welder (compensating for the weaker welds by doing double and triple passes, and welding every possible seem). It was a pain, I did a lot of grinding to smooth out the spattery welds, but its been 6 years or so and no issues.

I welded up my rear tire carrier with the Mig 170, and it's been going strong for 3 or 4 years. No issues with welds breaking or cracking...but I routinely inspect it for issues just in case.


WIth all that being said, sure a Hobart or Lincoln or Miller are more highly regarded and will work great and probably last longer. But for sporadic use on a few onesi/twosie projects, the Harbor Freight Mig welders worked well.
 

AlbatrossCafe

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Western WA
Awesome review @robcarync , that's the kind of info I was looking for. I'm definitely sold on getting something closer to 200A now. Any reason you prefer flux core? Most people online don't like to mess with the splatter but you haven't seemed to prefer it. I guess cleaning up the splatter isn't that bad?
 

robcarync

Sliders
Location
Raleigh, NC
This is a bit rambly...but here it goes: I am lazy and cheap...so dealing with sourcing a bottle, regulator, etc seemed to be needlessly complicating the whole thing.

If I was doing artwork or something decorative, and I was doing it frequently enough, then gas all the way. If I was going to be making things for customers and needed it to look pretty, MIG makes sense.

For offroading armor and construction for myself...no big deal. Before I paint something, I would be touching everything up with a grinder anyway. If you are looking for a welder, I am assuming you have an angle grinder. You can destroy weld spatter really quick with a grinding disc, flapper disc, or even a wire brush and a chipping/chisel hammer (I got all that stuff at Lowes or Home Depot).

The other thing: depends on how often you plan to use it. I basically used my 90Amp welder a lot when I bought it to build my bumper...(also used for adding a CB antenna mount and light tabs to my existing bumper). Again, I don't recommend that one at all...but I compensated for weak welds by welding every seam, and how the geometry of the plates all lock together. I did a lot of grinding to clean it up, but not really due to it being flux core, it was mostly because that welder is sucky at maintaining a clean arc and made inconsistent welds. It was a pain to smooth everything out to look presentable, but for a one off project, I didn't mind. If I was going to make bumpers as a side hustle? Then grinding everything like I did isn't a sustainable process.

I used my MIG 170 a lot for building the tire carrier. Night and day difference. A lot less grinding even though it was flux core because the arc was so stable and much smoother. I still touched up a few things here and there, but not nearly like I did with the 120 volt unit.

But since then...it is a couple onsie-twosie side projects and repairs. Lawn mower bag frame broke, I can tack it back together real quick. My airbox bracket broke, so I took some scrap metal, hammered it into a bent bracket and welded a nut over a drilled hole so I could bolt it up. Grounding bolt in the fender pulled through rotted sheet metal, so I weld up a washer to re-establish a hole to bolt to. Lawn decoration broke off the metal stake, I can weld it back together. Who cares about a small amount of spatter on something like that?

Here is a video going over my rear bumper and tire carrier for reference on how I constructed it.

MIG looks good. You can get a nice "stack of dimes" look to your beads. Most of my stuff doesn't really need to look that good.


Article on grinding welds:

https://hackaday.com/2019/10/22/grind-your-welds-with-pride-if-thats-the-way-you-do-it/
 
Last edited:

Prime

Shut up Baby, I know it!
Admin
Location
Denver Adjacent
Awesome review @robcarync , that's the kind of info I was looking for. I'm definitely sold on getting something closer to 200A now. Any reason you prefer flux core? Most people online don't like to mess with the splatter but you haven't seemed to prefer it. I guess cleaning up the splatter isn't that bad?
It's not. It comes off real quick with a grinder. The only welding I've done is flux core. Though I think I'd still want mig for my own shiat.
 

robcarync

Sliders
Location
Raleigh, NC
even a dry wall scraper will take off most weld spatter.

It is tiny bits of melted metal that flies an inch or two in the air (cooling) and has enough heat to stick. But it isn't fused into the material.
 

TerryD

Total Tease
Supporting Member
Location
Covington, Va
Just ordered the Hobart Handler 210 MVP, a wide-viewing area auto dim helmet, wire brushes, a chiseling hammer or whatever, welder gel, and some 0.30 inch flux core. Here's to building something cool and not electrocuting myself!

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Good list but you need a set of Mig pliers. They are super handy changing tips, cutting off excess wire and pulling jams off tips.
 

29erClan

Bought an X
Location
Meh
I think you'll be happy with the 210 MVP. Plenty of room to grow into bigger projects if you decide to do the 240v wiring.

IMHO getting a tank of gas is worth not wasting any fun time on the clean up needed for flux core. You can always get one later.
 

AlbatrossCafe

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Western WA
Oh boy... this is getting expensive quick. Expected to spend about $1k for welder and some basic gear. After a cart, small metal table, and a few misc clamps I'm prob about $1600 into it. So far though, it is really nice. I'm only only 115v but it has provided enough energy (granted I'm on max settings) for everything I've done so far. I bought a 50ft 10ga extension cord for it since I don't think I'll be getting 230v anytime soon. Really nice being able to fix random stupid things around the house that I never though possible.

Side note: Harbor Freight always gets a bad rap. I've hard tails of "you cheap out on HF you are gonna regret it" but in all of my Xterra experience, the odds & ends I've picked up from them have been fantastic. I really dig the gloves and cart they provided me.

Anyway, here is pics as requested... here is the cart (which I'm learning is "required" to keep this thing in order) with welder:

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My first official creation with it - the "tetanus inducer" - made out of old rusted rebar. Maybe I can throw it out of the back of my Xterra to help me elude pursuers?

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And my first fix - had to get a replacement clamp for my bike rack. The part I needed was not manufactured. In order to make replacement fit, I had to extend the old one. Used some more rebar for that. Not beautiful but it works great!

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Next is tack welding 2 of the nuts that broke off for my front sway bar mounts!
 

TerryD

Total Tease
Supporting Member
Location
Covington, Va
(granted I'm on max settings)

Not trying to be a jackass but I told ya.

The 115V jobs would be completely maxed out and you'd have no room to grow. Then you'd wind up buying this machine anyways and then have to deal with two welders.

Keep your eye out for one of these! It's really nice having everything on one cart.

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My little cart looked like this...

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robcarync

Sliders
Location
Raleigh, NC
Nicely done!

It really is a game changer once you have the power to cut metal and stick it back together again!

FYI...mythbusters did an episode on the effectiveness of spy gadgets in a car chase scene...and your creation made me think about when they dropped little spike jacky type things to pop tires of the car behind them. Note: It works better if you create it out of hollow tube, that way you puncture the tire, and don't plug the hole for them! The tires deflate faster!

Harbor Freight is good for a hobbyist and occasional use. I have used their wet tile saw, and it's been through hell. Did 1 full bath room remodel and a kitchen back splash. It keeps trucking...but I don't use it often. Full time contractor doing tile work 5 days a week? Probably not good enough.

Same thing with their welders. I have had no problem with their welders, and did a 2 decent projects with them. Good enough for a fabrication shop doing this work day in and day out? No...plus the duty cycle would be too limiting in a production environment with constant use. But it works.

We had one of their air compressors in a shed out in a field. It was an occasional use type of compressor to run impacts off of if you needed to make a field repair. Never failed us...but it isn't used every day.
 

AlbatrossCafe

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Western WA
Nicely done!

FYI...mythbusters did an episode on the effectiveness of spy gadgets in a car chase scene...and your creation made me think about when they dropped little spike jacky type things to pop tires of the car behind them. Note: It works better if you create it out of hollow tube, that way you puncture the tire, and don't plug the hole for them! The tires deflate faster!

Haha this must have been what I was subconsciously thinking when I wrote my above post. I remember that episode now.

Agreed on Harbor Freight - Simple stuff that is hard to mess up like a welding cart or random one-off tools I usually pick up there. Their stuff isn't that bad at all. The welding gloves I got are from their "Vulcan" brand. Now if I did this daily like you said, who knows if they would hold together. But they fit the bill for my couple times a month light welding activity.
 

AlbatrossCafe

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Western WA

jsexton

Need Bigger Tires
Location
Lewis Center, OH
Co2 gets slightly deeper penetration but can have very slightly more spatter if your angle isn’t quite right. Not a significant difference for what we do imo.

c25 is what I meant the other day and typed the wrong thing (75% argon 25% co2) would still be my preference if I were a full time shop, but it just isn’t practical for a hobby (and I have it). I’m betting there are a lot more guys out there using 100% co2 than you realize.

I’m debating exchanging my c25 cylinder for just argon and play around with aluminum. Might as well.
 
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