The Strengths (and Pitfalls) Of Bilstein 5100's

scoyoc Mar 26, 2020

  1. TerryD

    TerryD Total Tease Supporting Member

    Messages:
    2,772
    Location:
    Covington, Va
    4600s from a Pro4X if you aren't adding heavier spring rates. Valved pretty much identical to 5100s but don't have the adjustable spring seat.
     
  2. Xterrorista

    Xterrorista Skid Plates Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,401
    Location:
    Aurora, CO
    20200502_134343.jpg 20200502_134409.jpg 20200502_134401.jpg So my coil springs are 500# not 650# and All Dogs thinks the shocks might not be put together correctly and thinks it's a washer or gromet missing for it to be making clanking noises.

    He assured me after more than 2yrs of these coils and 5100s it's not the 5100 topping out...
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2020
  3. westslope

    westslope First Fill-Up (of many) Supporting Member

    Messages:
    305
    Location:
    Wildfire country, BC
    Well, the B6 4600 rears are $10 less expensive and the B6 4600 fronts are ~$50 less expensive than the B8 5100 equivalents (using RockAuto.com).

    Where can I find the technical specifications for these shocks? I see the MSDS sheets on the bilstein.com/us/en site but no technical specifications.
     
    Xterrorista likes this.
  4. TerryD

    TerryD Total Tease Supporting Member

    Messages:
    2,772
    Location:
    Covington, Va
    If you are looking for valving info I called Bilstein about it once and they wouldn't release that information.
     
  5. TerryD

    TerryD Total Tease Supporting Member

    Messages:
    2,772
    Location:
    Covington, Va
    Do you have any pictures of the lower spring seat?
     
  6. General_Tarfun

    General_Tarfun Need Bigger Tires Supporting Member

    Messages:
    682
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    The first time I replaced the shocks on mine was going from the factory non-Bilsteins to the Bilstein 4600's keeping the stock coil and I thought they were great. I really didn't have any complaints at all except the coils had sagged quite a bit over the years (they had over 100k on them), even with the sag the ride quality was fine. I have the stock bumper and no winch or anything up front so it makes sense that the weight was handled pretty well by them I guess. That's the main reason I decided to order the OE coils for mine this time around, they're pricey but at least last time around I had no complaints and got way more mileage out of them than the moogs.
     
    TerryD likes this.
  7. General_Tarfun

    General_Tarfun Need Bigger Tires Supporting Member

    Messages:
    682
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Same, I don't remember the reason but it was something about it being a custom application.
     
  8. Xterrorista

    Xterrorista Skid Plates Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,401
    Location:
    Aurora, CO
    I just got off the phone for the 2nd time with All Dogs and they're pretty sure the shop didn't use a piece or maybe assembled them wrong. He mentioned there not being enuff pooch to the bushings on the top end and wanted to know how much threading I had on the top bolt.
    20200502_134355.jpg
    20200502_160002.jpg
    I pulled the nipple off the bolt for this pic. He said if I had 1/2-3/4" of threads that it was bottomed out and the shop forgot something or did something wrong...
     
  9. General_Tarfun

    General_Tarfun Need Bigger Tires Supporting Member

    Messages:
    682
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Looks to me like they might have left out the bottom washer.
     
  10. Xterrorista

    Xterrorista Skid Plates Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,401
    Location:
    Aurora, CO
    Looking at it again maybe the bottom perch is upside down. Going to watch the YouTube vid All Dogs shared with me..


    View: https://youtu.be/SLFSzmxKCQY


    Nope, the bottom perch is correct and it is on the lowest setting.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2020
  11. General_Tarfun

    General_Tarfun Need Bigger Tires Supporting Member

    Messages:
    682
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Bottom perch looks ok to me, I see the upper section where it sits on the ring on top which is correct.
     
  12. westslope

    westslope First Fill-Up (of many) Supporting Member

    Messages:
    305
    Location:
    Wildfire country, BC
    Good to know. So all these descriptions of 'valving' I am reading on the boards are qualitative assessments by enthusiasts?

    I kept looking and wound up in the lifted trucks/SUV 2020 Bilstein catalogue. The B8 5100s, B8 6112 and B8 5160s are recommended for 2nd generation Xterras. The B6 4600s are recommended for 1st generation Xterras with a 0-3" front lift and a 0-2" rear lift.

    Curious that B6 4600s are recommended for stock 2nd generation Xterras and for lifted 1st generation Xterras. I am assuming for the moment that the two are valved almost identically and both are just as durable.

    Judging from the descriptions, I am surprised that the B8 6112 and B8 5160s are not more popular with off-roaders.
     
  13. westslope

    westslope First Fill-Up (of many) Supporting Member

    Messages:
    305
    Location:
    Wildfire country, BC
    Sharing that information might reduce Bilstein's market power (pricing power). Price discrimination strategies -- all firms use them for manufactured products -- are to some extent based on barriers to information.

    Be thankful this is the case as otherwise, companies would have far less resources for innovation. Earning 'economic rents' (above market rate profits) is typically a very good thing. Companies will invest considerable resources in order to maintain and protect that profit flow.

    I am an economist by training, I love freemarket capitalism and do apologize to those of you who might be offended.
     
    scoyoc, Newb and Xterrorista like this.
  14. TerryD

    TerryD Total Tease Supporting Member

    Messages:
    2,772
    Location:
    Covington, Va
    According to my conversation with Bilstein the 4600s and 5100s are different valving but it's because the 5100s are valved to act like the 4600s when you've lifted the vehicle. I don't know what that actually means but it's what the tech on the phone said to me...
     
    scoyoc likes this.
  15. Xterrorista

    Xterrorista Skid Plates Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,401
    Location:
    Aurora, CO
    Update on the 5100 issues I was having.

    I found out after pulling the coil and springs back apart that the top hats/top strut mounts were worn out and cracked...figures being original at 214k miles. I wonder if it was from having heavier lift springs (2", 500#) and those mounts being the next weakest link..? We got the OEM parts from Napa for $21/ea and had them back together in under an hour.

    The ride is much, much better and is close to stock feeling again with just a bit of slop in the wheel at ~70. I still have both sway bars on and plan to test pulling those soon and then getting off road..
     
    ffxcores, scoyoc, Newb and 2 others like this.
  16. General_Tarfun

    General_Tarfun Need Bigger Tires Supporting Member

    Messages:
    682
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Just realized I should probably put my 5100 update here as well to keep the thread a good info source. The problem I was having with a crap ride was resolved by replacing the old Moog coil with an OE Nissan (Part Number: 54010-EA061) coil, dropping the preload to 0 and using a spacer to regain lift.

    What I found during the coil swap was that the Moog coils were binding to the point where it was so often/harsh that the snap rings were both on the verge of failing from the impacts being transferred to them once the coil couldn't compress anymore. On one side as soon as the weight was off the coil the ring just completely fell off under the truck and rolled away, the other side had maybe an inch or so of ring still attached to the shock body but was severely bent. Thankfully caught this in a parking lot at home, considering I'd driven 1000 miles/15 hours across the country the day it could have been worse.

    Here are some pics of the original rings next to a set of spares I bought:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And here's the side with the ring still attached:
    [​IMG]
     
    scoyoc, TerryD, Newb and 1 other person like this.
  17. Survey20

    Survey20 Test Drive

    Messages:
    25
    I got the Alldogs bilstein 5100 kit with Broverland leaf springs and the medium coil spring.
    Sort of worried about my choice after reading this thread lol
    I’ve got the 4 shocks and front coil springs in. Waiting on one bolt to finish installing the leafs and I’ll see how it rides.
     
    TerryD and Xterrorista like this.
  18. scoyoc

    scoyoc Bought an X

    Messages:
    147
    Location:
    Moab, UT
    You know, I actually think they are pretty good if you are not trying to push too far beyond stock. I'll be interested to hear what you think after you hit a couple trails and get a feel for the new setup.
     
  19. Survey20

    Survey20 Test Drive

    Messages:
    25
    Well that’s good, but what do you mean when you write “not trying to push it too far beyond stock?”

    As in, the lift height? Or like performance wise while I’m out on the trails?

    I got the 2” lift coil springs and the 2” lift leaf packs. Needed to replace all my old stuff and this seemed like a decent upgrade with a slight lift. Hoping it rides nice on and off-road as I take this puppy to work everyday on highway.
     
    Xterrorista likes this.
  20. scoyoc

    scoyoc Bought an X

    Messages:
    147
    Location:
    Moab, UT
    From what I gather (mostly here and that other Xterra forum, and not having personally test other options...) is that 5100's on the front don't preform well with heaver spring rates. I think we discussed that earlier in this thread. So, if your spring rate is similar to stock you will be happy. I can only guess that the medium spring rate you chose is close to stock.

    I'm mostly happy with mine. Generally they ride nice on and off pavement. I think I'm getting some extra wheel lift in more rugged terrain because of my spring perch setting, 1-inch, which is pre-loading my spring to give me the lift. The pre-loaded spring is then limiting my up-travel, and causing front wheels to lift off the ground. Honestly, it only happens in really rugged terrain when I max out my articulation. So not a big deal really.
     
  21. Survey20

    Survey20 Test Drive

    Messages:
    25
    ah okay I understand. I did read that earlier about extra spring Weight and 5100 performance.
    These springs are rated “+100lbs”,
    But I’m not sure if that means 100 over stock, or able to handle 100lbs extra constant load.

    either way, I got the leaf springs in today and I’ll see how everything rides to and from work for a while until I can get off pavement.
    Oh and my 5100’s are set at the lowest setting. No spacer or anything.
    Hoping everything performs better than my stock shocks and leafs that had 140k
     
    scoyoc and TerryD like this.
  22. ffxcores

    ffxcores [fully disclosed] Supporting Member

    Messages:
    125
    @Survey20 did you get extended length 5100s for the rear to accommodate the lift from the new leaf pack? I have new 5100s all around with ADO coils in the front and it's been great on and off the road. Very happy several months later. In the rear I did add-a-leaf though. If ADO had their leaf packs back then I would've done that.
     
  23. Survey20

    Survey20 Test Drive

    Messages:
    25
    I actually don’t know. I’m assuming they’re extended? It doesn’t say in their website which model # they are.
    I got exactly 2” of lift in the back and I think 2” in the front, but I didn’t measure the front before install.

    I’m not seeing any issue with the rear sway bar either. I know people have relocate kits for that as the shock can rub. Maybe I just haven’t had the full extension yet though To hit it
     
  24. ffxcores

    ffxcores [fully disclosed] Supporting Member

    Messages:
    125
    If you got them from ADO they're likely good. I bought mine separate and had to specify the length. I think they're technically the 5100 for the Frontier stock.

    I did the rear sway relocate from here: https://www.bilsteinlifts.com/shop/...-relocation-kit-fk42-nissan-xterra-2005-2018/ but it was $34.99 and free shipping back in March. I'm not sure if I *needed* it but I figured why wonder.
     
    Xterrorista and scoyoc like this.
  25. Survey20

    Survey20 Test Drive

    Messages:
    25
    Nic
    nice, thanks for the link. I’ll check it out to see if will need that or not.
     
  26. General_Tarfun

    General_Tarfun Need Bigger Tires Supporting Member

    Messages:
    682
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA

    The extended versions are the 5125 model, the 5100's an extra inch so with your lift you should be good. I didn't need to swap my 5100's for the 5125's until I lifted into the 3-4 inch range. You'll know if you need them because the rear will top out and clunk over stuff like speedbumps where the rear gets fully extended.
     
  27. Xterrorista

    Xterrorista Skid Plates Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,401
    Location:
    Aurora, CO
    Well, I was just about to order the performance leaf packs from ADO and bored on break last night I looked at CL first.

    I'm meeting a fellow Xer tonight to p/u some factory take offs with low mileage and just had add a leafs put on them. He lucked into a set of Alcans..

    100$ vs 900$, ALL DAY LONG. I'll upgrade later if needed. Now I can spend that dough on TLC for the other vehicles.
     
    scoyoc, Zack., TerryD and 1 other person like this.
  28. Survey20

    Survey20 Test Drive

    Messages:
    25
    Ah okay, great. Thanks for the info.

    random question - do either of you have aN after market rear differential cover? My stock cover is raggedly dirty, I’d like a little more protection and honestly just an excuse to pull it, clean it and paint it, and add a cover.
    I saw a shrock brand that looked decent, but wasn’t sure if it actually did anything or not.
     
  29. Survey20

    Survey20 Test Drive

    Messages:
    25
    nice, I’d take that savings anyday.
    Great find
     
    Xterrorista likes this.
  30. Xterrorista

    Xterrorista Skid Plates Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,401
    Location:
    Aurora, CO
    I have the shrockworks diff cover but it's for the M226 I plan to swap for my c200. It looks hella strong and heavy, should be a bunch of extra protection.

    I've got the 2-4" 5100s in the rear with nisstec 2" shackles at the 2" lift setting. Old leaves with new shocks and shackles and I'm still at 2" of increased height after about 4 months. I didn't need to deal with bumpstops or brake lines yet with that amount of lift.
     
  31. Survey20

    Survey20 Test Drive

    Messages:
    25
    cool, I’ve got the m226 in back and I was leaning towards the shrock cover. I’ve seen some other designs. Just wasn’t sure what to go with
     
  32. Xterrorista

    Xterrorista Skid Plates Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,401
    Location:
    Aurora, CO
    I like it but have zero experience with them on anything. I have seen several pics of busted diffs from sliding into rocks so when I came across a nice "coopin'" from them I ordered a bumper, some skids and the diff cover last blk Friday I think..
     
  33. Survey20

    Survey20 Test Drive

    Messages:
    25
    Wait, you ordered those items last November and don’t have them yet??
     
    Xterrorista likes this.
  34. Xterrorista

    Xterrorista Skid Plates Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,401
    Location:
    Aurora, CO
    No they're on the truck. Haha, it did take about 4-5 months tho.. I just haven't gotten the M226 yet so that's still patiently waiting..
     
  35. Survey20

    Survey20 Test Drive

    Messages:
    25
    Oh
    ohh I understand. you have the shrock gear and differential cover, but haven’t hit anything with it before, if I’m understanding you correctly. You like it otherwise though right?
     
  36. ffxcores

    ffxcores [fully disclosed] Supporting Member

    Messages:
    125
    I have the Shrock cover on a C200. I feel much better with it on there. I'm jealous of you guys with the M226 because you can get a complete replacement instead of just armor and they make LubeLocker for your diff.

    You can see my Shrock cover in a few different spots in this video:

    View: https://youtu.be/RMacxunCGbw
     
    Xterrorista likes this.
  37. Xterrorista

    Xterrorista Skid Plates Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,401
    Location:
    Aurora, CO
    The SW bumper, tcase n rad skids are on and I like how they look..

    I'm still looking at the diff cover sitting in the corner of the dining room because I'm waiting for an M226 and matching r180 in 3.69.

    Once someone I know upgrades I'll be swapping axles for the locker and better gear set..
     
  38. Glenlivet

    Glenlivet Test Drive

    Messages:
    5
    I just ordered the same kit for my 2010 AT/S. The original suspension still feels okay, but the dirt shrouds on the rear shocks rusted through and there's a layer of crud on top of the seals that made me think it was only a question of time. AllDogOffroad said I needed either shackles to raise the rear to match the height gain up front...or new leafs. With that many miles on the truck I opted for the ADO BrOverland leaf pack. Should be fine for dirt road exploring in our little town that has just one paved road.

    Just curious why you chose the 1 inch setting? In their description ADO recommends keeping it at zero.

    Pete
     
    Xterrorista likes this.
  39. scoyoc

    scoyoc Bought an X

    Messages:
    147
    Location:
    Moab, UT
    To be honest, I was (and still am) wingin' it and didn't really know what I was doing... LOL. I went off of recommendations on this forum, "that other forum", and descriptions on Nisstec and 4x4Parts.com (I'm not sure I've been on ADO website yet). What I was trying to do is level the X out in the front to compensate for the 2" in the back. Now I'm thinking that keeping the spring perch at zero and adding a 1" body lift might be the way to do that and maintain full up and down travel. But honestly, the spring pre-loading isn't that bad at 1" and an easy way to level out the truck.

    I actually ordered a set of Radflo's with 600# coils and will see how they ride, then if needed I'll might add the body spacer to level it out a little and give me room for bigger tires.
     
    Xterrorista and Glenlivet like this.

Share This Page