The Grackle

General_Tarfun

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Supporting Member
Location
Atlanta, GA
Have you ever changed your IPDM? The next time it happens, I would have someone try to crank it and verify the relay is engaging but the starter still isn't.

You might wiggle your shifter too. Could be the neutral safety switch.

Yeah I swapped it for a newer one a year ago and tried the shifter wiggling a few times with no effect. Whenever the no crank issue happens the voltage stays steady on the dash which is odd. I probably need to use my meter to check that the starter is being sent power to engage since nothing else is helping. Do you think swapping in a new relay might help?
 

TerryD

Total Tease
Supporting Member
Location
Covington, Va
Yeah I swapped it for a newer one a year ago and tried the shifter wiggling a few times with no effect. Whenever the no crank issue happens the voltage stays steady on the dash which is odd. I probably need to use my meter to check that the starter is being sent power to engage since nothing else is helping. Do you think swapping in a new relay might help?
Depends on if the relay is getting signal to close. Measure across the coil pins with the relay out once the next time you get a no start.
 

General_Tarfun

Sliders
Supporting Member
Location
Atlanta, GA
Depends on if the relay is getting signal to close. Measure across the coil pins with the relay out once the next time you get a no start.
That's a good call, it's doing it every time I go to start it now so that should be pretty easy to measure. By chance do you kno of a good way to remove the relays without cracking them?
 

General_Tarfun

Sliders
Supporting Member
Location
Atlanta, GA
Well, I tried swapping the relay out with a known good one and it somehow seems worse now. I also removed the fuseable link and cleaned it up but I've always made sure the terminals were in good shape so there wasn't much to clean. Checked the grounds, all good there too. Battery/Alternator voltage is in the 13-14 volt range and seems fine.

I haven't been able to meter the pins yet but the starter sounds awful so I went ahead and ordered a low mileage junk yard replacement. It's hard to describe the noise but if I go to start it and turn the key off after it's turned slightly it almost sounds like a low pitched grinding noise when it spins down.
 

TerryD

Total Tease
Supporting Member
Location
Covington, Va
Well, I tried swapping the relay out with a known good one and it somehow seems worse now. I also removed the fuseable link and cleaned it up but I've always made sure the terminals were in good shape so there wasn't much to clean. Checked the grounds, all good there too. Battery/Alternator voltage is in the 13-14 volt range and seems fine.

I haven't been able to meter the pins yet but the starter sounds awful so I went ahead and ordered a low mileage junk yard replacement. It's hard to describe the noise but if I go to start it and turn the key off after it's turned slightly it almost sounds like a low pitched grinding noise when it spins down.
Could be a blown planetary.
 

General_Tarfun

Sliders
Supporting Member
Location
Atlanta, GA
Could be a blown planetary.


It's feeling that way, once I get the replacement delivered I'm going to pull the old one apart and check out the internals. I replaced it about 85k ago when I thought the original was sticking. It wasn't, turned out it was the radiator fan hitting the shroud and I ended up tossing the original after a few years. Regret haha
 

General_Tarfun

Sliders
Supporting Member
Location
Atlanta, GA
The replacement starter will be here today but I think I may have figured it out already.

I noticed my battery is the type with removable caps so I popped those off and looked inside. The water level was low, the plates were still covered thankfully but there was only about a quarter inch of water above them.

I added a little over a quart and a half of distilled water and then put it on a charger for a few hours. Reinstalled it, and the truck started with no issue –and the starter turned over faster than it was before.

I took it on a test drive yesterday and made a few stops without incident. I'll probably still install the newer starter since it's much lower mileage but the old one is going in the basement storage this time.
 

TerryD

Total Tease
Supporting Member
Location
Covington, Va
@G_T: I am a little surprised that you are not using AGM batteries. Any reason in particular?

In passing, if the X sits for any length of time, I top up the AGM battery up with a 2 amp trickle charger.
Agreed! I have the Autocraft Platinum from Advance in mine. I top it off at each oil change on my NOCO.
 

General_Tarfun

Sliders
Supporting Member
Location
Atlanta, GA
@G_T: I am a little surprised that you are not using AGM batteries. Any reason in particular?

In passing, if the X sits for any length of time, I top up the AGM battery up with a 2 amp trickle charger.


The main reason at the moment is I bought my last battery at Costco and when it went bad about a year ago they gave me a free replacement.

That said, whenever this one goes I'm planning on switching to AGM. I'm rough on batteries and I can never get more than two years out of the non-AGM type.
 

SledheadX

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Rochester, NY
That’s weird though that you checked voltages with no apparent issues. But as you told me when I was looking, Costco has a good deal on batteries with their pricing and warranty. Too bad you bought a replacement starter mid-diagnostic, but with it sounding like you claimed, may still have been a warranted step. Maybe go straight to AGM and sell the replacement Costco battery?
 

General_Tarfun

Sliders
Supporting Member
Location
Atlanta, GA
I replaced the starter last night and also bought a Battery Tender to recharge the battery. I checked the resting voltage this morning and it was at 12.6 volts which I've ready is a good reading for overnight. The old starter was in rough condition and had a lot of deterioration around the terminals, probably from my beach adventures last year so I'm glad I replaced it.

I've been looking into the AGM batteries but was wondering what size you guys are running? I see on Rockauto they seem to only have 34R's for the X/Titan/Frontier but if I look at the usual auto parts stores there are a few 24F options.
 

SledheadX

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Rochester, NY
I think I updated you before whe you told me about Costco batteries but I ended up getting an Odyssey. I just don’t have an AGM specific charger yet. No issues for any aspect but haven’t challenged it yet.
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Zack.

Has been dubbed Arnold
Supporting Member
Location
Livermore, CA
Auto Craft Platinum AGM, 24f 710cca, from Advance Auto. It looks like they rebranded and call it Die Hard now. I used a 25 or 30% off coupon, plus had a cash back deal on my BofA card when I bought it so ended up being an okay price. The listing now says excluded from discounts except speed perks rewards though. Charging I have a NOCO genius 10a, that I’m going to hardwire in if I ever get around to it.
 

General_Tarfun

Sliders
Supporting Member
Location
Atlanta, GA
We’ll after installing the new starter and running the battery tender until full charge it’s been holding a steady 12.6 resting voltage. I think I may have fixed it but I’m keeping an eye on it for the next week or so with daily resting voltage readings.
 
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westslope

First Fill-Up (of many)
G_T: The current battery is a regular AGM battery. I was in a rush when I had to replace the battery that came with the X.

When I replace it, I will make an effort to replace it with a deep cycle AGM battery. One with more than enough cranking amps. I ran deep cycle batteries on the old WD-21 pathfinder for years and the setup worked really well.

Off-road 'off-road' is not too hard on batteries if it is a trail where one slows down to a crawl.

On 'off-road' gravel roads, especially logging roads with any kind of traffic, the pounding the battery takes is quite something. The thicker walls/plates of a deep cycle battery simply last longer. From what I understand of AGM battery construction, a deep cycle AGM battery should last even longer than older style flooded-cell deep cycle batteries.
 
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General_Tarfun

Sliders
Supporting Member
Location
Atlanta, GA
G_T: The current battery is a regular AGM battery. I was in a rush when I had to replace the battery that came with the X.

When I replace it, I will make an effort to replace it with a deep cycle AGM battery. One with more than enough cranking amps. I ran deep cycle batteries on the old WD-21 pathfinder for years and the setup worked really well.

Off-road 'off-road' is not to hard on batteries if it is a trail where one slows down to a crawl.

On 'off-road' gravel roads, especially logging roads with any kind of traffic, the pounding the battery takes is quite something. The thicker walls/plates of a deep cycle battery simply last longer. From what I understand of AGM battery construction, a deep cycle AGM battery should last even longer than older style flooded-cell deep cycle batteries.


I think it was the logging roads that caused most of the water to leak out, some of them have been pretty rough this year since the Forest Service started using a much larger size gravel/rock in former washout areas. My research has matched what you said on the AGM durability, it seems that just the design alone makes them not as fragile compared to the flooded cell type. That's definitely the route I'm going whenever my current battery finally gives out.
 

TerryD

Total Tease
Supporting Member
Location
Covington, Va
Auto Craft Platinum AGM, 24f 710cca, from Advance Auto. It looks like they rebranded and call it Die Hard now. I used a 25 or 30% off coupon, plus had a cash back deal on my BofA card when I bought it so ended up being an okay price. The listing now says excluded from discounts except speed perks rewards though. Charging I have a NOCO genius 10a, that I’m going to hardwire in if I ever get around to it.
This is the same one I have. It's been great. Like I said, I put it on my NOCO smart charger when I change the oil and let it top it back off.
 

General_Tarfun

Sliders
Supporting Member
Location
Atlanta, GA
This is the same one I have. It's been great. Like I said, I put it on my NOCO smart charger when I change the oil and let it top it back off.

I might end up just replacing my battery now with that model. I checked the resting voltage today and it was at 12.4 volts after a couple days of short trips. It's starting to seem like the battery might just be weak because it's getting a solid charge from the alt.
 

XterraRising

Need Bigger Tires
Supporting Member
Location
Utah
I just got an Interstate Group 24F from Costco today. $100 with core isn’t a bad deal at all. I also have a NOCO charger that I just installed to use instead of the Battery tender. That reminds me, I should go out and hook it up to the Saturn in the driveway. I’m going on 196K miles with the original battery… from 2007. Trying to get it to the 200,000 mile club before I have to replace it.
 

General_Tarfun

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Supporting Member
Location
Atlanta, GA
I just got an Interstate Group 24F from Costco today. $100 with core isn’t a bad deal at all. I also have a NOCO charger that I just installed to use instead of the Battery tender. That reminds me, I should go out and hook it up to the Saturn in the driveway. I’m going on 196K miles with the original battery… from 2007. Trying to get it to the 200,000 mile club before I have to replace it.

That's the battery I just replaced. I went through 1 battery a year, the warranty is great but the lifespan in my case was terrible. Hopefully you have better luck with it.
 

XterraRising

Need Bigger Tires
Supporting Member
Location
Utah
I’m thinking if you are smoking a battery a year, it ain’t your battery. That’s just a symptom of something else. If it sits for more than a week at a time, I’d definitely consider a battery maintainer.
 

General_Tarfun

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Supporting Member
Location
Atlanta, GA
I’m thinking if you are smoking a battery a year, it ain’t your battery. That’s just a symptom of something else. If it sits for more than a week at a time, I’d definitely consider a battery maintainer.


I never had the issue with other batteries for some reason, only the Costco brand. I think the service roads around here are just too rough for the non-AGM type batteries. I have a battery tender that I've been leaving on the battery since I don't drive too much lately.
 

XterraRising

Need Bigger Tires
Supporting Member
Location
Utah
I’ve seemed to have good luck with Interstate batteries before, but it’s entirely possible that they build them differently for Costco to keep the price down. Not sure on that. I do know that constant vibration and hard use with kill them. I think I replace batteries in my work truck every year and a half it seems. But they get abused like crazy.
 
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