remote reservior shocks in front?

slantyshanty

Bought an X
Location
'Merica (DFW)
Anyone running these in front? Is it even possible? Would it be a waste? Needless to say I'm in the market for shocks and looking at bils this time around. Had/have the Rancho 9000xls from the 4x4 parts kit and I may need back surgery after owning those. Even on their lowest setting I feel like driving the X is a workout. I don't drive it I ride it.
 

TJTJ

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
NJ
The front shocks don't get that much work out that you'd NEED reservoir shocks, the Bil 5100 for example seem to be up for about anything unless you increase wheel travel with new LCA too, etc.

The only reason to run reservoirs, anywhere, is that the cycling of the shock is creating so much heat, that the shock can't dissipate it w/o the added capacity.

Monotube shocks have MUCH greater heat capacity than twin tube shocks, and rarely if ever will you NEED a reservoir to prevent shock fade, etc. Obviously, if racing it, or your normal drive involves mile after mile of whoop de doo's, etc...sure, get the reservoirs.


For perspective, in the NJ Pine Barrens, there is a set of abandoned RR tracks that run for many miles...and, you can drive along them off roading. As whoop de doo's and wash board surfaces are the result of many rigs passing over the same trail for decades....they deepen and become even more wash boarded with time. I had a buddy with Rancho's who, on the same run, had his shocks work for like 1/2 mile of that, and then started to beat his kidneys into pain-pate when the shock's heat built up. My rig was gliding along fine on the Bils, and never faded even after a few miles of that.

:D
 

Nd4SpdSe

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Quebec, QC
I ran 3 set of 9000's, they never lasted more than a week. I bought them from 4x4 parts, then got them warrantied (from Canada not worth it, plus they didn't list them as warranty replacement so I got dinged on duties as if they were purchased). After that I got a used set from a friend, they didn't last no longer. Another friend thinks it's from the weight. His Rancho's were ok until he got a rear bumper put on his truck.

 

Silver dude

Sliders
Founding Member
Fox Emulsions
tapatalk_1423290375745_zpspcg7b3so.jpeg
I'd recommend the plain bilstein 5100 series. Was a lot of custom fab work for little gain.
 

slantyshanty

Bought an X
Location
'Merica (DFW)
Man, Fox' sure are sexy but dang Xpensive! I do have quite a bit of weight in the X (storage, tools, junk, stereo, more stereo) I have the SAW torsion bars that come with the 4x4 parts lift. (articulator with revolvers) It got real annoying once I threw on the 295/75/16's... Now these "wonderful" Dallas highways, at 70+ mph, are more than a rough ride. I'm not asking the X to drive like my suburban, but I need to do something. Pretty sure my rear springs are sagging as well so I guess I'm in the market for a new set of those. I was looking at 5165 or 7100 remote res but honestly haven't done enough homework yet. I don't have the ability for any custom fab work right now so they need to fit. I DO have raised lower shock mounts in the rear though. (instead of being at the bottom of the pack they are at the top, so we are only talking 1-2"ish)

Oh, I guess I should add that I have the 3 pack AAL, removed overload, added middle spring from a Titan. Rode great for quite a while but it is definitely time for new shocks at least.
 
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TJTJ

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
NJ
The reservoirs don't make it ride well...they prevent fade.


The valving for rebound and compression and the responsiveness to the terrain are what makes it ride well, etc.

If you get valving that is too stiff for the tires/unsprung weight, etc, or for the weight of the frame, etc...it will ride hard.


Essentially, and ideally, when you hit a bump, the shock compresses to allow the tire to ride up the terrain w/o picking up that corner of the truck with it. If the shock resists that compression too much, that corner of the truck is tipped up or bounced up, etc.

Similarly, when the tire runs into a depression/drop off, if the shock doesn't extend quickly enough, the truck will DIP at that corner.


The other issue is the RATE at which it damps. Ideally, most start out softer and get progressively harder...analogous to the way a catcher pulls the mitt back when catching a hard fastball, so it soaks up the impact and doesn't bounce the ball back out, etc.


So, rebound valving mostly controls the sprung weight (What the suspension is supporting, such as the frame, etc...) and compression valving mostly controls the UNSPRUNG weight, such as the axles and tires, etc.


If you have stiffer t-bars are leaf packs, that increases the forces acting on the unsprung weight as far as recovery for example...as it can ALSO be resisting compression, AS WELL AS "pogo-ing" the axles and tires BACK harder after the initial compression, etc.

Food for thought.

:D
 

slantyshanty

Bought an X
Location
'Merica (DFW)
I would really like the 7100's but the problem would be that they are heim joints on top. That would require me to either get shock hoops or use a stud to heim adapter. Kinda scared to use adapters... It's like adding another fail point. I've never liked adapters of any kind, wheel spacers fall under this category.

I like the 7100's because they are rebuildable. If I'm going to drop that much on shocks, why not get ones that will last. I would want reservoir shocks not only for the added movement but because it is overkill really. They should last. The whole compression/rebound part make sense to me and isn't really the question (right now anyway) but yet another reason I would want the 7100's. If I didn't like how they rode I could always swap out the internals instead of changing out the whole shock.

Now, I just gotta decide how I want to make them work.

What SHOULD shock hoops cost to get installed? I have no welding abilities/capabilities at the moment. The $300 TC ones seem a bit steep.

Anyone in the DFW area willing to have a mod day? I'd much rather my hard earned $krilla end up in the pockets of a fellow X'er. Or we can work something out, you weld and fab I'll airbrush lol.

And beer...
 

Silver dude

Sliders
Founding Member
I run the 7100 series in the rear. Metal shock heims are like the worst idea in the front ever they chatter and make a tambourine like racket even if they are solid, the amount of rigid force they transmit to the bolts causes the bolts to chatter. I tore the heims out in the back and pushed in rubber bushings. Sure the shocks are rebuildable but after 5 Years mine are pretty shot all together. I could rebuild them but the parts would cost as much as a new shock. Figure I need a new shock shaft, orings, oil, the braided line is rusty, the body is tarnished, heims are all shot, some place with access to nitrogen charging equipment, would likely have to be shockless in the down time, its easier just to replace. I firmly believe the truck will never ride good without major mods. The short arms with stiff torsion bars in the front and the dated leaf springs in the rear its like mid 80's era suspension and it will always ride as such. With that aside the 7100 series is a good shock absorber. My Fox emulsions really out shine them in quality, thicker shafts, billet ends and just a higher overall quality. But, the 7100 series do perform equally well at a good price. I've had to spray them with clear Rustolum to stop the rust and corrosion otherwise they have been great. When you really use the shocks they are worth it, they have worked wonders on week long 500mile dirt road trips. Even after all day bumping along on rough roads they don't fade.
 

Silver dude

Sliders
Founding Member
Yeah those are application specific though not sure how long or stiff they are as they are valved and packaged towards a specific vehicle like a ford f350. You would need a custom shock for a custom application. It's been a long time but I think you need a 6"-8" travel shock in the front with custom upper and lower mounts. Ruffstuffspecialties.com sells good mount options. The rear is 12.5? They are the short body versions so they fit on the factory mounts. Really best to measure your setup under multiple conditions and get the perfect fit at full droop, flex and rest. As far as valving i'm not real sure. The 7100's I had bought through 4x4parts got sent to Bilstein and came back with Xterra specific valving. The Fox shocks I bought on clearance at Polyperformance.com and had the guys there revalve them. Real nice crew there. I don't remember the valving I went with however.
 

TJTJ

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
NJ
Yeah those are application specific though not sure how long or stiff they are as they are valved and packaged towards a specific vehicle like a ford f350. You would need a custom shock for a custom application. It's been a long time but I think you need a 6"-8" travel shock in the front with custom upper and lower mounts. Ruffstuffspecialties.com sells good mount options. The rear is 12.5? They are the short body versions so they fit on the factory mounts. Really best to measure your setup under multiple conditions and get the perfect fit at full droop, flex and rest. As far as valving i'm not real sure. The 7100's I had bought through 4x4parts got sent to Bilstein and came back with Xterra specific valving. The Fox shocks I bought on clearance at Polyperformance.com and had the guys there revalve them. Real nice crew there. I don't remember the valving I went with however.


Good points.

Every X is a bit different, and, what tires you run, the other suspension mods you have, how much armor weight you carry, plus typical cargo, etc, how high you lift is/your COG, and so many other things will change what will be "best" for your own rig.


For example, with a rig with 3" SL/2" BL and full skids, sliders and bumpers, on 33x12.5's, for rebound/compression, you started with OEM valving ~ 285/65 in front and 205/55 in back....with the front shock being a 9" - 13" travel and the rear being 14-23" travel......


....and you'd up it to ~ ~ 360/80 up front, with ~ the same travel (IFS), and 255/70 for the rear with ~ 16-26" travel.


Everyone's idea of "smooth ride" is different, with one guy's "rides like a 60's era caddy, like a dream" being another guy's "Rides like a 60's era caddy, it sucks". Some people want a more controlled ride, some like a floatier ride, etc. So, everyone's "perfect" valving will be a bit different.


If you raise the COG, you have more sprung weight, and you'd want more rebound valving to help control it. If you mount 35's instead of 33's, etc, you might want more compression valving to help control that unsprung weight, and so forth.


If you will run Revolvers, THEY smooth your ride out really really well, and, add enough travel that the 26" long shocks get stretched, and become your limiting factor....so a longer shock that can stilll get short enough is needed, and so forth.

The FRONT, being IFS, and the shocks being so far inboard, mean you need almost no travel to cover the arms droop/compression cycles...and a few inches of wheel travel is covered by less than an inch of shock travel, etc. (~ 4-5" of shock travel will cover most UCA based lifts)


Another thing to consider...the 5100's for example are very tough as far as over extension and compression...so, if for example you hang the axle by the shock (Shock is limiting factor in droop for this scenario), the 5100 can take it. The 7100 is not built the same way, and over extension can damage the shock (Ask me how I know...)...so while the 7100 has great performance, you do have to make sure you do what Silver mentioned, and test droop/compress the rig's suspension to see just how close the upper shock mounts get to each other, and how far away, etc. (You do this with the shock's disconnected)

When doing the front shock mounts, note the reference points, as the top's a stud etc...so you want to make sure you can translate the mount distances to other mount types later. On the rear's, many of us used Skidderz, etc, or otherwise changed where the lower shock mounts were, to improve rock survival, etc. This changes the needed shock lengths proportionally. If also moving the top mounts, well, its ALL different.

:D
 
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slantyshanty

Bought an X
Location
'Merica (DFW)
I definitely want more compression valving than I currently have... And who really knows how much I "have". These are pretty old and have lived in 120 deg weather for years, -25 deg weather for years + salted roads, been driven on beaches and in the ocean many times, etc. So, needless to say, they have been abused. Plus, they are Rancho rs9000xl's to begin with. Two of the adjusters stopped working around a year old. I think one is stuck on 2 and the other on either 1 or 3, can't remember. That was about 9-10 years ago. Damn that's a long time?! Holy crap... Anyway, about 3 years ago the other two adjusters stopped working and are stuck on 1 or 2? Yyyeah, my ride is slushy to say the least. Like driving a boat. But the softness I can stand. It's when I hit a bump. Like getting hit in the spine with a hammer. Plus, after the initial jar of the bump, it's followed by the slushy boat wave. lol

I know, sad and just plain not safe anymore.
 

slantyshanty

Bought an X
Location
'Merica (DFW)
Why would the 5100 be able to take more abuse than the 7100? That's sounds like I'm in disbelief but I honestly want to know lol. Is it because the 71 is rebuildable and the 51 is not?
 

Editor X

Test Drive
Location
Holly Srings, NC
Jumping into this thread kind of late so bear with me.

Yeah it's possible, but as others have pointed out you really have to ask if it's needed. The only real reason to run them is to have more fluid and help prevent shock fade due to heat buildup caused by cycling the shock. Never mind that they're cool to look at. You need to get shock hoops of course and have them welded in. No big deal really. There are several out there that are ready to be mounted and most shops can do the instal. You just need to be careful about the shock length and get your travel measurements right. Stock is roughly 7 inches if I remember. I get 12.5 or so and am running 8 inch 2.5 diameter shocks. I'd seriously look at your application then decide if it's worth it when a nice pair of Bils would be fine. Just my two cents.
 
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