Nissan lockers for $299!!!

[TJTJ]

A lot ordered, and installed. I don't know any 2nd gens that did though.

As I don't have a 2nd gen...I had some learning to do on that issue.


As far as I know, just like an LSD, the default position is both sides locked together. So, in a straight line, they turn in unison.

In a turn, its only pushing the slower (inside) tire...and letting the outside one freewheel. I imagine it would do the same on a 2nd gen, as that's happening in the diff not the hubs.

ALL of the 2nd gen questions I think come back to a question of degree. DOES it differentiate better than the Lock Right, so that the smaller revolution does make a difference in avoiding binding, etc. If it doesn't, then, sure, its a gobblesend to the 1st gens, and the 2nd gens can get ARB. etc.





For the 1st gens, in 2wd, its transparent...as we have hubs that can unlock, etc.

The guys who installed, so far, report that 2wd is exactly like stock, and 4wd felt just like stock too, except they felt the steering working more in the steering wheel.

So far, in 4wd, the front end seems to turn about as it would with the open diff. This was tried on the road, to see if it binded up differently, as well as off road...and, so far, it seems to feel like a 4wd stock rig.

No one drove it in snow (Who described it to me yet at least, but with today's strorm, that could change) to let me know how that worked out.

As snow is a much lower traction coefficient, the force on the tire to differentiate in a turn is way lower, and as as we know, so far, its fine when there's enough traction to rotate a tire, but the real tough test is if its enough to allow differentiation when is really slippery out. My LSD for example cannot differentiate when its slippery out, and my rear end can come around with the throttle...so it would need to differentiate better than the stock LSD can.

If it can, then I can be officially impressed.

 

[Xterra Performance]

I met a guy in Moab this last year that had one installed in the front on his second gen. He said it was good but he would eventually install an ARB because it unlocked a few times on some hill climbs and ledges he went up that he had to turn on. It seems like a decent investment but don't expect to get ARB style (locked solid)locked when you are using it. Though it is a really nice product there are a few small drawbacks..

 

[CaptainMorgan_SOS]

Is this deal still going on? I may be interested in picking one up soon.

 

[TJTJ]

I met a guy in Moab this last year that had one installed in the front on his second gen. He said it was good but he would eventually install an ARB because it unlocked a few times on some hill climbs and ledges he went up that he had to turn on. It seems like a decent investment but don't expect to get ARB style (locked solid)locked when you are using it. Though it is a really nice product there are a few small drawbacks..

He misunderstood how it worked then, as it doesn't unlock, it is always driving one or both tires.

In other words, if the ROAD or GROUND is rotating the tire faster than the drive train, say on a turn, it LETS the faster tire freewheel...BUT the inside tire is still pulling.

If, at Moab, etc, and you are making a turn, if BOTH sides must turn at the same rate, the inside tire has to PUSH the too-slow outside tire around the turn, so you are fighting the traction of the tire that needed to go faster, and that outside tire is resisting your forward motion.

So you can move forward more easily if the braking effect of the outside tire not being ABLE to go fast enough to keep up, is eliminated. Letting it freewheel is one way to do that.

This is one of the many reasons a fully locked front is hard to use in turns, w/o being ABLE to let the outside tie freewheel, or speed up faster than the inside tire, you have to fight against that outside tire's resistance.


So it never actually becomes an open diff/unlocks, it just powers the two tires in a straight line, and the inside tire in a turn...letting the outside one freewheel and not fight your forward motion on the turn.

If I was to design the perfect autolocker, I'd figure out a way to have both sides powered all the time, but, have the two sides somehow know how fast to go, so the outer one is powered faster and the inner one is powered slower.

The trick would be to be able to handle the full ranges of DEGREE in turns, as a sharp turn vs a soft turn would be a very different ratio.

If one day we have electric motors at each hub, for example, that sort of thing would be easier.

 

[dhyde79]

He misunderstood how it worked then, as it doesn't unlock, it is always driving one or both tires. In other words, if the ROAD or GROUND is rotating the tire faster than the drive train, say on a turn, it LETS the faster tire freewheel...BUT the inside tire is still pulling. If, at Moab, etc, and you are making a turn, if BOTH sides must turn at the same rate, the inside tire has to PUSH the too-slow outside tire around the turn, so you are fighting the traction of the tire that needed to go faster, and that outside tire is resisting your forward motion. So you can move forward more easily if the braking effect of the outside tire not being ABLE to go fast enough to keep up, is eliminated. Letting it freewheel is one way to do that. This is one of the many reasons a fully locked front is hard to use in turns, w/o being ABLE to let the outside tie freewheel, or speed up faster than the inside tire, you have to fight against that outside tire's resistance. So it never actually becomes an open diff/unlocks, it just powers the two tires in a straight line, and the inside tire in a turn...letting the outside one freewheel and not fight your forward motion on the turn.

Um, not gonna be mean about this but, the guy's complaint was that it didn't stay locked on climbs with turns. As in he has one and it was his experience. When you have one, I don't think it matters how the mfg. says it works. When you have one, and you report on it's performance. You report on it's performance. Plain and simple.

He wasn't saying he thought about it but was worried about those issues, he has it, and those ARE his issues.

 

[TJTJ]

Um, not gonna be mean about this but, the guy's complaint was that it didn't stay locked on climbs with turns. As in he has one and it was his experience. When you have one, I don't think it matters how the mfg. says it works. When you have one, and you report on it's performance. You report on it's performance. Plain and simple.

He wasn't saying he thought about it but was worried about those issues, he has it, and those ARE his issues.

Well, I suppose if saying something makes it true, then those are his issues.

Its not being mean of you to say it either, as you are simply relaying what your friend told you....to provide information. That's not mean.



I'm just saying that unless his was broken, or, was not a Lokka, they can't become an open diff...they can only let the side that needs to go faster, go faster.

If he perceived that as being open, OK, I could under stand how that could be perceived....but it would still not be an open diff unless it were broken or not installed correctly, etc.


I've heard all sorts of examples of people who perceive a symptom as meaning one thing, and it actually meant another, but would go to their graves arguing about it rather than change their mind.

Same with certain shock/suspension, engine mods, etc....people can be fooled, all the time.


Now, if he said that the zig zagging a line up the climb kept changing the side that was pulling, that would make sense, and jive with the autolockers behaviour, etc. That can feel weird for sure if used to an open diff especially....or an ARB, etc.

The change in side that pulls when working your way back and forth up something for example, can FEEL like, when one side goes from freewheeling to pulling, as if it unlocked during the transition, but it never did, its just how it could be perceived, as it HAS to be driving one or both sides, it can't actually "unlock" anymore than an open diff could have BOTH sides not rotating...the power has to go SOMEWHERE.

On the open diff, the power goes to the spinning faster tire on turns, and both tires when going straight, on the Lokka, it goes to the slower tire in turns, and both tires when going straight.

There is no mechanism to "lock up" less than it is, or more, its just powering both or one, period.

The ARB is powering (when locked) both, period...unless its broken/not installed right, etc.

 

[Cyclemut]

I still don't understand why you're pushing this so hard TJ. You don't have one, you haven't ever had one, you have zero experience with them on your own vehicles and are trying to dispel the experiences of those that have had them, on their own vehicles and have actually wheeled them.

You don't even have a 2nd Gen but are trying to tell those with a 2nd Gen how they're going to act and what to expect. Hell, you don't even know how the 2nd Gens are set up (hubless, front axles have no hubs).

What's the deal? What are you getting out of this? If they sell 10 units, do you get a free one?

 

[knightrider]

Sorry tj but LSD default is open, at least viscous LSD like come in the first gen x. The plates slip causing the viscous fluid to heat and lock the dif.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[Cyclemut]

The LSD in the 1st Gens isn't viscous, it's a plate LSD with spring washers. It's default is traction until broken loose.

 

[TJTJ]

LOL

(Cycle)

You know, I haven't a clue why.

I only respond to aspects that are not accurate, or may be misleading, just like you did about the LSD, which I was about to, then saw you beat me to it.

Am I compelled to correct LSD issues?

I might be...or maybe there's another term for it. Maybe take what you felt when you had the impulse to correct the LSD misconception, and project that impulse to me.

That's probably about all it is.

If I was even getting one, or a commission,, etc, I would have stated that upfront...but I stated that I have a front ARB already sitting in a diff waiting for a warm shot at swapping it in, and, was merely posting about something X-ers have been asking for since ~ 2000 or so, an inexpensive mechanical locker for the X.

I never said anyone had to get one, I only responded to specific objections...much as you did about the LSD. I welcomed your 2nd Gen experience and familiarity with the front drive train, and information about its "always spinning" parts, etc....as that was all good information. I've wheeled with jeepers with this though, and did have impressions of it, and knew it was better than the Lock Right despite superficial mirroring...as I could see the difference in action.

I understood taking Lock Right/Lunch Box Locker experiences, and generalizing them to all lunch box lockers...and, probably, I would have been doing the same myself if I had not had the Lokka specific experiences as being different.


So, after all is said and done, you and I correcting things and clarifying issues is essentially this:

 

[Cyclemut]

There's a difference between being wrong and using influence to propel the claims of something you have no actual experience with.

Seeing one in a different vehicle doesn't add up to having actual experience with the product, specially when it comes to drive train components. If it's something like a bumper, lights, winch, etc., with no possible adverse effects to critical components of a vehicle, then one could reasonably state that they've got something to add.

But calling something "experience" or even "first-hand knowledge" because a vehicle in the group had a unit installed, on a completely different vehicle, completely different axle and not knowing if that person has had any actual adverse effects (no one sits down and interviews the person with every possible question or could possibly think that someone is going to disparage something they think works great in their rig) during any and all possible scenarios.

My wife has had the experience of every axle swap, every locker try out, every tire and wheel combo, has experienced and driven all of my rigs from when they were IFS to after the SAS was complete (and the stages in between), can explain to you the differences between the two (in technical and layman's terms) but has completely different opinions about what was good, bad or makes no differences on any and all of them. And I've put her through the wringer, having her drive my rigs through the likes of Black Bear Pass, Left Hand Canyon (Boulder, not Buena Vista), Hell's Revenge and Golden Spike. But our opinions still differ on major items. She prefers the ARB in the front with a tight, but not super packed, stock LSD in the rear of the H233b on 33's, she feels it's more predictable whereas I prefer the Ford 9" with a mini-spool in the back with an Ox locker in the front because I like to "feel" the locker engage before throwing the torque at it on 35's.

She's driven our current '11 Pro4 X in both forms, stock and otherwise and can give you opinions on CoG and high speed maneuvers, locker engagement, tire selection, ABLS/VDC and where they're good and bad along with what parts have had to be changed when wheeling hard, wheeling not so hard and what to expect if this or that happens or comes up.

Point is, when speaking to someone with a device in another vehicle, opinions can be like a-holes. Everyone has one and they usually stink (unless you're from Aspen, in which case, it smells like roses and they'll charge you $100 to experience it).

Nothing from the Jeep owner that has one will carry over to either a 1st Gen or 2nd Gen. His solid axle (D44 or D30?) acts completely different than any Xterra. This is made further evident by the difference in suspension alone, not to mention steering, weight, etc.

I personally know of 2 Loc Rights sitting on a shelf because the owners have had too many issues with them. And though you state that they're similar, but they're different, they're not. It's like the difference between a mini-spool and a full spool. Similar, different and yet, the same.

Your Lokka will not perform any different than a Loc Right. Same design principals, extremely similar design configuration, just in a different box. I'd be interested to see if it's the same thing as the old Pathfinders/Hardbodies had available, with different splines for the output flanges.

What's the saying? You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

 

[dhyde79]

having her drive my rigs through the likes of Black Bear Pass

Black bear pass....is it REALLY as bad as people like to hype it?

I saw it while fully snow covered in early June a couple years ago, REALLY wanted to try it...

 

[drbandkgb]

Ok guys

You both have made your points here... If this keeps up I will delete this thread.




#danamigo

 

[Cyclemut]

Gotcha Dave.

Dhyde, yes, it is. Close to the end of the trail, you're off camber, to the cliff side (facing the creak, long drop), heading downhill (it's a 1 way trail and is only open to the opposite direction once or twice a year I believe), on broken slate, during turns.

When you stop on this stuff, it's like being on ice. Pucker factor is at the highest possible. You'll be pulling your seat covers out of your throat, and they didn't get there by swallowing.

Picture stopping, having the truck slide on broken slate for a couple of inches to a couple of feet before actually movement of your rig stops, then turning back into the cliff face (overhanging cliff at that), then applying light throttle and moving slowly, but not too slowly (have to overcome the slipping of the slate beneath your tires while maintaining forward movement) and going as far as the next guy in front of you will allow, without hitting him, stopping too quickly and leaving enough room to start forward movement again if the slate and you don't come to an agreement as when you can stop movement again.

Quite harrowing.

After that are the switchbacks. Every turn is at least a 3 point turn. Bigger rigs Austin Powers those things and there are a ton of them.

But in the end, there are several good breweries in Telluride that will help ease the seat covers out. :lulz:

People die on it every year. At least one dies due to trying to turn around at the end and they meet someone coming the other direction and either move over too far to let them by or they decide to play around in a couple of areas that look clean but really aren't. There's a ton of shale up there and most of the dirt in that area is sitting on fractured shale. Pulling off and playing will end up with the dirt moving on top of the shale, pushing your rig in directions you were trying desperately to avoid.

Those mountains are some of the youngest in the country. Very rugged, very beautiful, very unforgiving. It's the perfect trail to practice perfect trail manners on because doing otherwise won't end up with you getting a fine, but the cost is higher than you want to ever pay.

 

[TJTJ]

I guess the Xterras with it now will continue to report...and whatever it is, it is.

We can then both chalk up whatever the results are to experience, and adjust our opinions accordingly.

Until then, I shall continue to value your expert opinions as always (Well, probably afterwards too)

 

[rokdaddy]

Black bear pass....is it REALLY as bad as people like to hype it?

I saw it while fully snow covered in early June a couple years ago, REALLY wanted to try it...

It's not bad at all, it just takes time and patience. The longer your wheelbase is... the more patience you need. Pucker factor can be high if you are aren't used to wheeling high mountain passes. My fifteen year old boy drove 2/3rds of it a week after finishing driver's ed this past summer. Scared the crap out of my wife though.

-Rok


Note: I'm not arguing Cyclemut's description; all of his points are true. I did watch a Bronco try to back up on a switchback once and it had to be rescued by his buddies from above with a winch as his rear end was about to slide sideways out over a ledge. He would have cleaned it if he wasn't so heavy on the skinny pedal.

 

[Cyclemut]

I guess I should have clarified that a bit, Thanks Rok.

The majority of the trail is pretty wide open, with ledges and whatnot that you'd normally expect. The last 1/3 of the trail is the harrowing part with the pucker factor.

 

[dhyde79]

I guess I should have clarified that a bit, Thanks Rok. The majority of the trail is pretty wide open, with ledges and whatnot that you'd normally expect. The last 1/3 of the trail is the harrowing part with the pucker factor.

That's kinda what I've heard before. The trail's mild till the descent down the switchbacks above telluride/bridal falls

 

[Grandpa X]

I have run mechanical lockers in the past. Matter of fact there is a Detroit locker in one of my buggy diffs. There have been many many many discussions on how they work and if they work as nicely as some folks claim.

Number 1!!! I would not put one of these in a rig that other folks drive. It will freak them out and if using it on the ice and snow may put them in the ditch. (hopefully not in the way of on-coming traffic.)

They act as a open diff.. and a spool! Nothing between! There is no slip, it is locked or it is not. Sometimes it releases... sometimes it doesn't. You can somewhat manage it with the throttle.. or the clutch pedal.. or neutral. If you add power to get around a corner... count on it locking up. Being that it is locked "most of the time" during tight turns with the throttle getting pushed, plan on tires lasting around 10K max.

Being trucks have a lighter rear end than suv's, they tend to not effect the direction of the rig as much. This is obviously using the locker in the rear.

Most of these get installed and yanked back out in short order because of the road manners.

You will have the folks that swear by them.. and some that hate them. Normally the guys that like them don't mind the road manners and tire wear being it makes their rig keep up with folks on the trail. I have never seen anyone love these in the front. Lock out hubs make it work... but what a pain the the (_i_). IFS front ends will not take the heat.. an alignment nightmare.

My opinion... Buy a selectable locker. Tires are not cheap and the difference in price (and steering repair if used in the front) will be made up within a couple years easy.

Written from my phone.. sorry if there are grammer/spelling probs.

 

[CaptainMorgan_SOS]

Understood, thanks for the info. I was considering one for the front, but am no longer. I'll just save up for an air locker later on down the road.

 

[NMTerras]

Case closed

 

[KBC]

I can't believe this thread was on the verge of being locked. I read the whole thing and I saw two guys saying "I think your wrong and here's why" nothing but good debate. Lighten up DRsomethingorother

 

[drbandkgb]

Ok ok... A horse walks into a bar.... Bartender says "hey why the long face"

 

[drbandkgb]

Debate is a great thing.. But after so long these turn into a I'm right your wrong thread and then they have lost the reason for being started. Many think adding a mechanical locker to the front of these heavy SUVs is a bad idea.
And many think the value of this locker makes it a great install.

Only time will tell in this debate

 

[Frogstar7055]

Just my un-educated opinion but it seems like these are a better match for a 1st gen than a 2nd gen due to the unlocking hubs we have over the 2nd's.

Or I could be full of crap.

 

[KBC]

Debate is a great thing.. But after so long these turn into a I'm right your wrong thread and then they have lost the reason for being started. Many think adding a mechanical locker to the front of these heavy SUVs is a bad idea.
And many think the value of this locker makes it a great install.

Only time will tell in this debate

True enough but I've read enough posts of Tjs to know he will always try and back things up with his facts and Cyclemut seems pretty smart.

It is nice to see someone challenge Tj though. Although he has a lot of good info sometimes I think he might be wrong on a few things and I think a lot of guys just like to blindly follow the gospel.

 

[drbandkgb]

Just my un-educated opinion but it seems like these are a better match for a 1st gen than a 2nd gen due to the unlocking hubs we have over the 2nd's.

Or I could be full of crap.

Yes..

The gen one has a true transfer case that unlocks the front diff when in 2wd so the cv's are not turning.

The gen two is all computer controlled. The cv's turn at all times and true 4wd is on when the hubs kick in.

So with a 1st gen you would never notice it till in 4wd. 2nd gen the locker is working at all times.. I'm guessing that this could cause premature wear issues In the front diff

 

[robcarync]

Lots to read in this thread...but for the record, as someone who has installed the LOKKA...some of this being recap:

1) The springs are stronger than a pen...and there are four of them. I tried to force the gears open by hand after installation of the springs/pins, and was unable to separate the gears. Obviously, my hand on greasy gears is a lot less force than the road/trail on a 32" tire.

2) Once it ratchets, that does not mean you have lost the "locked" front end. It is not an LSD, it does not lose power once you ratchet. The idea of "if it differentiates so easily, then having a low break away torque means it is useless offroad" conceptually makes sense, except that it is only the ONE side losing power that differentiates. The other side is still powered. Likewise, if one tire is in the air, the one tire with traction remains powered. Remember, to differentiate, the GROUND has to FORCE the TIRE to rotate faster than THE OTHER SIDE. An OUTSIDE force has to cause the tires to rotate at different speeds. This happens ONLY when BOTH tires have traction AND one side is being pushed by the ground faster than the other.

3) Once installed, the two sides of the gears did have some play to rotate relative to each other. Meaning the pin was slightly smaller than the slot so each side pair could shift some. This may help it ratchet when under power. Even when powered by the cross shaft in the carrier, if the road pushes on the axle enough, it could potentially push one side off of the cross shaft so it can ratchet while the other side stays powered. I don't know if that is what it was designed for, but it was something I noticed while assembling.

4) I have not off roaded with it yet, but have tested on gravel roads. Steering definitely has more resistance as both tires are trying to return to center. I can see how you can wear out steering components faster. Count on Bandit4x4 idler arm bushings, new tie rod ends, heavy duty tie rod adjusters, and an idler arm brace. Grassroots center link will be nice too. My biggest concern is offroading when we are on stretches of dirt roads with decent traction. Will it differentiate well enough on turns? Not sure yet. My solution to this, if it turns out to be an issue, is to put manual hubs on, and only lock one side until I need both.

5) We are supposed to get some snow the next few days, so I will take it out and see how it performs. On snow and ice, you have such little traction, I honestly don't see how it would hurt you if you are driving slow and careful, and not like an idiot. Obviously, the biggest difference between 100% locked front diff and an open diff...is DIFFERENTIATION. Differentiation only happpens when there is traction. If there is no traction, there is nothing to cause the drive train to bind up and need to differentiate. The Lokka shouldn't differentiate, as the tire should just be slipping on the snow/ice while locked, and I don't see how an open diff would provide better results. I myself don't drive on snow/ice often being in NC, so I won't know until I try it.

6) First gens have unlockable hubs. This is the only reason I would recommend this so far. 2WD has NO indication of the Lokka. No constant ratcheting, no wear of the gear teeth. If you install manual hubs, you can only lock one wheel, and turn the other wheel on if you are in a locker required area. I think a Lokka with manually locking hubs is the ideal set up...2wd unchanged, and you can select whether the left, right, or both hubs receive power.

7) I have broken many tie rods and ends from losing traction on a front tire on small rocks or other high traction obstacle (non-slippery cracks/crevices, off camber ditches, etc), then abruptly catching traction as it can't crawl any further and slips back down. Most of these times, I have had traction on the other tire, but the open diff spun the free tire. My hope is that with the Lokka, I can slowly tackle these type of obstacles without worry of one tire losing traction. Obviously, my previous broken tire rods can be prevented by being lighter on the gas pedal...but with an open diff, I was forced to try a bump and go as the rear tires were inching up...and we all know that worked for me now.

 

[dhyde79]

Ok, I was going to copy/paste and reply bit by bit, but, I don't have that level of energy left.

Thanks for the input from someone who has one, however...

A. The debate never was it's suitability for a 1st gen, it's on a 2nd, where the diff is always engaged unlike a 1st where it disengages completely in 2wd.

B. If you're breaking tie rod ends while wheeling, I highly doubt a locker will change that. Breaking hubs, sure, axle shafts, sure, but, tie rod ends would be from lateral force, and getting the wheels hopping side to side or wobbling and trying to muscle them to keep em straight. (Done it plenty of times in my broncos that I've had, not talking smack, merely pointing it out)

By having a locker, it'll save your tie rod ends, but only if you use less little pedal, but the same would apply without the locker.

Something that might help more with those tie rod ends is a steering stabilizer....but, as fragile as they sound from all you gen1 guys replacing em constantly, it may not...upgrading may be the only way out there.

 

[robcarync]

As said...people with them will report their experience. I am not debating anything. I am agreeing with the sentiment that I would use it on a first gen with unlockable hubs. Is this the debate section of the forum?

Rotating mass on the wheel shouldn't directly impact tie rods. I still want to be able have losing traction on one tire not prevent me from moving forward. It means I can continue to move forward slowly instead of having to gas it to inch forward before regaining traction. Those situations are usually where I find broken tie rods, I would say PROBABLY because having a spinning tire regain traction suddenly can cause the front tires to bounce side to side a bit. Maybe, maybe not.

Tie rods aside, I don't see how it requires energy or why you need to respond to my points one by one. I offered my experience based on my Lokka installed in my 2004. I don't think it was biased or misleading.

Additionally, upgrading the tie rods is not a way out...I have upgraded them 3 times thus far. They still bend or break.


Also, not to beat a dead horse...on Lokka's website:

Q21. Will it damage my vehicle?
Never drive your 4x4 on a hard surface with either the hubs locked or in 4x4. It will result in erratic steering, severe transmission wind-up resulting in unsafe driving and potential drive-line damage.


With Lokka fitted, single wheel ‘spin-up’ can never occur - it is not physically possible to drive one wheel faster than the other - thus with two wheels driving at the same speed, the sudden stress loading of drive-line components which occurs when a spinning wheel suddenly grips and stops is alleviated.




Case closed....don't install one on a 2nd Gen since their hubs don't unlock. There is no debate.

 

[NMTerras]

^^^Hyde, I love your enthusiasm, but this debate was about both gen1s and 2s. You focused on the gen2 aspect because that's what you drive. As to your B point, you missed the point that having a locker reduces the need to use your skinny pedal to "bump" and clear obstacles. Simply put, the locker allows you to crawl more, and bump less.

 

[robcarync]

^^^Hyde, I love your enthusiasm, but this debate was about both gen1s and 2s. You focused on the gen2 aspect because that's what you drive. As to your B point, you missed the point that having a locker reduces the need to use your skinny pedal to "bump" and clear obstacles. Simply put, the locker allows you to crawl more, and bump less.

That was my logic behind it. Slower crawl leads to more controlled and constant loading of the entire drivetrain and steering compared to shock loads of bumping and hitting the skinny pedal.

As you said dhyde79, using less gas would help me on tie rods Lokka or not...the Lokka allows me to use less gas and continue, as opposed to an open diff getting stuck with less gas.

 

[NMTerras]

^^^This

 

[caseycamby]

^^^This

X2 haha. I have to agree with Rob on that point.

Also, thanks for compiling on that info into one post. I was keeping up with this but I got behind and missed so much, I didn't feel like going all the way back through it haha

 

[dhyde79]

Sorry if it came off as being a d**k, running on almost 2 hours of sleep due to a sick kid.

Regarding my debate comment: 1st gens were clearly agreed upon that they were a good thing for. 2nd gen was the "is too, no it's not" argument/debate...

I look forward to your trail report on the unit, and hope all works awesomely for you.

 

[robcarync]

Sorry if it came off as being a d**k, running on almost 2 hours of sleep due to a sick kid.

Regarding my debate comment: 1st gens were clearly agreed upon that they were a good thing for. 2nd gen was the "is too, no it's not" argument/debate...

I look forward to your trail report on the unit, and hope all works awesomely for you.

You are good man. I read through everything and all this back and forth, thought I would chime in my observations and thoughts from having recently installed one. Some of the earlier comments also seemed VERY ANTI Lokka as a universal truth, with some mis-statements as to their function.

It looks to me like even Lokka does not recommend their product if you can't unlock the hubs if you read their FAQ, Q21.

 

[Frogstar7055]

My biggest concern is offroading when we are on stretches of dirt roads with decent traction. Will it differentiate well enough on turns? Not sure yet. My solution to this, if it turns out to be an issue, is to put manual hubs on, and only lock one side until I need both.

I have contemplated this exact same idea.

 

[robcarync]

Frogster, when you installing yours?!

 

[Frogstar7055]

Looking in about 2/3 weeks. Still getting settled from moving and gotta get the diff drop bushings.

 

[NMTerras]

Sorry if it came off as being a d**k, running on almost 2 hours of sleep due to a sick kid.

Regarding my debate comment: 1st gens were clearly agreed upon that they were a good thing for. 2nd gen was the "is too, no it's not" argument/debate...

I look forward to your trail report on the unit, and hope all works awesomely for you.

Clearly agreed upon? Did I miss something? I think it was agreed you can install manual hubs, and keep one open, so as to limit concerns about snow and other slick surface driving, I don't recall agreeing, clearly or otherwise, that they were a good thing in and of themselves. I sold my first gen, and will never put one of these in my second gen, so I guess I'm debating just for the sake of the argument, but I don't want someone to come along and read this and think "OK, so everyone says this is the way to go for a first gen, so here's my money." IMO, it's not.
Just my 2c, and I'll be interested to hear more feedback from those who actually have done it, first and second gen