Multiple codes pulled tonight

Prime

Shut up Baby, I know it!
Admin
Location
Denver Adjacent
I just picked up the mid pipes w/cats made by PaceSetter for $125 & $148. The part numbers are 324164 and 324165. Hands down the best deal on mid pipes out there.

Amazon sells them, but they have a lead time for shipment of 3-5 weeks for some gobbleawful reason. So I found them on autoanything.com and got them to price match Amazon. They showed up at my door in less than a week. Free shipping.

See if this link works for you. http://www.autoanything.com/exhausts-mufflers/61A7412A0A0.aspx

You can play the same game w/ the manifolds and upper cats. Again, PaceSetter P/N 753021 & 753022.

Amazon lists them for $266 per side.

Passenger side

Drivers side

Not sure how the manifolds w/ cats compares to rock auto, but I know the mid pipes are a deal.
 
Last edited:

idratherbe

Skid Plates
Location
North Shore, MA
Massachusetts does emissions but only through the OBD. They do NOT use a sniffer anymore. If you have a CEL, or SES light you will fail because the OBD is reporting a problem with a emission component(s).


Church, would you mind sending me a list of everything you replaced regarding the timing belt change?
 

KChurch86

Banned
Founding Member
Massachusetts does emissions but only through the OBD. They do NOT use a sniffer anymore. If you have a CEL, or SES light you will fail because the OBD is reporting a problem with a emission component(s).


Church, would you mind sending me a list of everything you replaced regarding the timing belt change?

Oh that's right! Man I totally forgot that. So I could get headers, CEL eliminators, and rear cats and be done with it? Hmm...

I replaced: Timing belt, water pump & gasket, thermostat, radiator and cap (upgraded to S/C dual core), upper hose, lower hose, and the 90° elbow that goes behind the cover, all 3 accessory drive belts, tensioner and spring. We didn't replace the tensioner stud because there was nothing wrong with the old one and we didn't want to mess with removing the old one.

Thanks for reminding me about the sniffer, I completely forgot about that. That might change things a bit.

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KChurch86

Banned
Founding Member
I'm gonna run this past my mechanic, get some prices and compare them to his. Thanks for the part numbers on those other cats too, I appreciate it. I'm excited at the prospect of headers so I'm almost leaning that way.

Wonder how terrible getting the old manifold studs out would be? Also, as far as I can tell, neither manifold is cracked - they may be museum-worthy.

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KChurch86

Banned
Founding Member
So a plugged cat is just as valuable to a scrapper as a functioning one, right? Might be a good way to recoup some of my losses.

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KChurch86

Banned
Founding Member
Alright, it's late and I'm tired, so I'm making this quick.

To recap:

The timing belt job was done. This weekend I finally got the correct parts to finish the exhaust. My truck is sporting the DT headers, OE-style secondary cats, all new exhaust. All 4 O2 sensors were replaced. Truck starts and idles like a dream.

Give it gas and is sputters, RPM's won't climb. Give it enough gas and it starts to stall. After running for 10-15 minutes the driver's side header is glowing cherry red. Only the driver's side.

It was suggested to me (from Drake, via MyFaceSpaceBook) that it sounds like the ignition timing is off and the fuel isn't being combusted in the cylinder, but instead in the header. It makes sense to me, but wouldn't that throw some sort of code? And why would it idle so smooth? Not disputing his suggestion, just opening this up to a broader audience.

Could bad injectors be at fault? What about a leaking EGR line? The EGR tube had to be modified in order to work with the headers and I'm almost positive it's got a major leak now.

My regular mechanic is in the Carolinas on vacation so he wasn't there to handle any of this. He's the one who set the timing but I question the way he did it. He didn't follow the procedure described in the manual at all. He assured me his way would work but I still have my doubts.

Just looking to bounce this off as many people as possible before I talk to him. Thanks everyone.

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Intender

Wheeling
Location
Lewisville NC
did you completely pull the distributor apart and look for metal shavings inside. When mine went bad I had no play in the rotor and couldnt see anything visually until I pulled it apart and the bottom half of the thing was completely full of metal shavings. once I tore it apart and cleaned out the shavings I was able to drive around on it for a good while before I started having any problems again.

And as far as timing goes, the only important thing to make sure you do is to unplug the bottom connector on the throttle position sensor. I tried adjusting mine without it the first time, it was before I was on the forums or found the fsm, and I had it all screwed up. It helps if the truck has been warmed up a bit, but that whole rev this high, sit do it again stuff can be skipped. Once you have it remotely close and the truck is running right you can fine tune the timing later.
 

KChurch86

Banned
Founding Member
did you completely pull the distributor apart and look for metal shavings inside. When mine went bad I had no play in the rotor and couldnt see anything visually until I pulled it apart and the bottom half of the thing was completely full of metal shavings. once I tore it apart and cleaned out the shavings I was able to drive around on it for a good while before I started having any problems again.

And as far as timing goes, the only important thing to make sure you do is to unplug the bottom connector on the throttle position sensor. I tried adjusting mine without it the first time, it was before I was on the forums or found the fsm, and I had it all screwed up. It helps if the truck has been warmed up a bit, but that whole rev this high, sit do it again stuff can be skipped. Once you have it remotely close and the truck is running right you can fine tune the timing later.

No, I never pulled the distributor apart.

The TPS was never unplugged either. When you say "bottom" connector, do you mean there is an upper and a lower connector on it, or one connector at the TPS sensor end and one connector at the other end?

Thanks for your reply.

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KChurch86

Banned
Founding Member
Bump for fresh sets of ideas, because I'm paranoid and want to see what else could be causing this.

A coworker mentioned bent valves...exhaust valves that could be bent just enough to not seat properly, causing total lack of compression along the driver's side head.

Another theory is lack of fuel, causing it to run super-lean. Might idle fine even if there is low fuel pressure, but when I give it gas it's starving. Wouldn't explain why the passenger side doesn't glow, but it's a thought.

I've been fearing head damage since day 1 on this. How possible does the bent valve theory sound to you guys? My money is still on the ignition timing being off, but I still haven't been able to speak to my mechanic.

I don't know what I'm going to do if I need head work, I've drained every account I have trying to get this damn truck fixed and this last Saturday was a huge blow. I know if the heads are shot I'll have to sell the truck, whole or piece-by-piece. Use what I make on the sale(s) to pay off what I owe on it; then go shopping and start another car loan. I'm at my wits end here. 2 months+ without a vehicle and doing nothing but throw money into it with nothing in return is getting old.


Back on topic. Like I said, bump for new theories and fresh eyes.

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Nesty

Test Drive
Founding Member
Location
Travel too much
Alright, it's late and I'm tired, so I'm making this quick.

To recap:

The timing belt job was done. This weekend I finally got the correct parts to finish the exhaust. My truck is sporting the DT headers, OE-style secondary cats, all new exhaust. All 4 O2 sensors were replaced. Truck starts and idles like a dream.

Give it gas and is sputters, RPM's won't climb. Give it enough gas and it starts to stall. After running for 10-15 minutes the driver's side header is glowing cherry red. Only the driver's side.

It was suggested to me (from Drake, via MyFaceSpaceBook) that it sounds like the ignition timing is off and the fuel isn't being combusted in the cylinder, but instead in the header. It makes sense to me, but wouldn't that throw some sort of code? And why would it idle so smooth? Not disputing his suggestion, just opening this up to a broader audience.

The exact same thing happened to me when I did my timing belt and when i opened it back up, it turned out that one of the cams timing was off timing by one tooth. I've had to fix a couple of cars that have had the same problem and it turned out to be that the timing on the cams was usually of by a tooth or two
 

KChurch86

Banned
Founding Member
Have you done a compression test on that side?

Not yet, my mechanic is still out of town. It's on the list.

The exact same thing happened to me when I did my timing belt and when i opened it back up, it turned out that one of the cams timing was off timing by one tooth. I've had to fix a couple of cars that have had the same problem and it turned out to be that the timing on the cams was usually of by a tooth or two

I'm not ruling this out, but 2 different people counted 5 times total and we both were in agreement on the count. Doesn't mean it's impossible though.

Thanks for the replies guys.

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Intender

Wheeling
Location
Lewisville NC
No, I never pulled the distributor apart.

The TPS was never unplugged either. When you say "bottom" connector, do you mean there is an upper and a lower connector on it, or one connector at the TPS sensor end and one connector at the other end?

Thanks for your reply.

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on the tps there are two connectors. You need to disconnect the lower one, which reads the actual throttle position. I cant remember if your supposed to disconnect it while the truck is running or when it is off. I think you do it with the truck turned off. I am pretty sure if you did it with the truck running it will just stall. And I would pull the distributor and check it for shavings. If your buddy has a shop and a press you could just order a new bearing if its bad. Its less than 8 bucks for the bearing and you just need to press it on. A lot better than paying $100+ for a new dizzy. Just be careful with that metal screen in there. If you mess it up you have to buy a new dizzy. i really dont think its a fuel issue. if your spark is right all the fuel going in should combust. That doesnt rule out possible valve train issue, but pulling the dizzy apart is free, and trying to set the timing properly is also free. and if your engine is not set at tdc anymore, just mark with a sharpie where your rotor is pointing and draw a line where the dizzy is sitting at the set bolt (the one you loosen to set timing and remove to take it out) and then you can get everything back in the way it came out. I pulled my whole dizzy out and tore it apart and cleaned it sitting on the side of the highway with nothing more than 2 screwdrivers. I just marked it like that and the timing was within 2 degrees when I got home. I didnt have a problem till I started trying to adjust it with a timing light and the tps still connected. It was off almost 10 degrees when I finally figured out what I was doing wrong.

Actually the dizzy is to blame for me finding the forums, and therefore getting bit by the mod bug.
 

KChurch86

Banned
Founding Member
on the tps there are two connectors. You need to disconnect the lower one, which reads the actual throttle position. I cant remember if your supposed to disconnect it while the truck is running or when it is off. I think you do it with the truck turned off. I am pretty sure if you did it with the truck running it will just stall. And I would pull the distributor and check it for shavings. If your buddy has a shop and a press you could just order a new bearing if its bad. Its less than 8 bucks for the bearing and you just need to press it on. A lot better than paying $100+ for a new dizzy. Just be careful with that metal screen in there. If you mess it up you have to buy a new dizzy. i really dont think its a fuel issue. if your spark is right all the fuel going in should combust. That doesnt rule out possible valve train issue, but pulling the dizzy apart is free, and trying to set the timing properly is also free. and if your engine is not set at tdc anymore, just mark with a sharpie where your rotor is pointing and draw a line where the dizzy is sitting at the set bolt (the one you loosen to set timing and remove to take it out) and then you can get everything back in the way it came out. I pulled my whole dizzy out and tore it apart and cleaned it sitting on the side of the highway with nothing more than 2 screwdrivers. I just marked it like that and the timing was within 2 degrees when I got home. I didnt have a problem till I started trying to adjust it with a timing light and the tps still connected. It was off almost 10 degrees when I finally figured out what I was doing wrong.

Actually the dizzy is to blame for me finding the forums, and therefore getting bit by the mod bug.

Awesome. Thanks a bunch for this post.

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KChurch86

Banned
Founding Member
I finally spoke to my mechanic, he said he'd go ahead and set the timing after disconnecting the TPS connector. He also said he'd like to run a compression test, starting on the driver's side, so he's doing that tonight as well.

He said he'd give me a call tonight and let me know what he found, so I'll update the thread after I talk to him again.

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KChurch86

Banned
Founding Member
Finally heard back from my mechanic. He did a compression test on all 6 cylinders and everything looks good. He found no fuel system issues, but he does still need to do a regular ol' fuel pressure check. He'll also be checking out the distributor as suggested, and then he'll re-check and reset the ignition timing after disconnecting the lower harness on the TPS.

Why he didn't start with the timing, I don't know; but it's progress. I was happy to hear he found no loss of compression.

So that's where the truck stands currently. He'll be working on it today and hopefully he'll be able to get to everything (I.E. finally checking the timing...) and let me know what he finds.


In other news, I've got a replacement EGR tube on order. As I posted in my 1st Gen Exhaust Options thread, I had to modify my EGR tube to work with my headers and it didn't work, so now I need to replace it and properly modify the new tube. As far as I'm aware, a leaking EGR tube wouldn't cause these problems so I'm not that concerned with that right now. Besides, the truck was acting this way before the EGR tube "went bad".

Oy vey.

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KChurch86

Banned
Founding Member
So, what was the final issue?

Ignition timing was way off. It was the last thing he checked.

I still have to fix the badly leaking EGR tube, as it's causing a hiccup and spitting sound, but parts are on order and a plan is in place. In the mean time, I can drive it as is.

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KChurch86

Banned
Founding Member
I've driven over 200...

I'm gonna give it another week or 2, with a long highway joyride in there somewhere. Maybe some light trails too, might as well have some fun while I wait.

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