2nd gen CV info needed: 1st gen long travel

[HolyGhost]

Starting the idea phase of a long travel setup on the 1st gen Xterra. I was wondering if someone can get me some info on the CV axles on the second gens. I know your trucks are wider but I need to just know the CV lengths. If anyone has a busted stock shaft for a titan or stock 2nd gen and would be willing to let me have it for shipping cost that would be awesome.

Sorry for so many questions I know nothing about the second gens.

Info I need for stock shafts:
-Stock shafts flange mounted to diff?
-IF flange mounted does anyone have the bolt hole spacing?
-Stock shafts equal length?
-Overall length of stock shaft

Info I need for titan shafts:
-Stock shafts flange mounted to diff?
-IF flange mounted does anyone have the bolt hole spacing?
-Stock shafts equal length?
-Overall length of stock shaft?
-Does the titan use the same knuckle as the stock Xterra?

 

[HolyGhost]

Okay I did some rock auto research and looks like the stock shafts are not flange mounted. I am now looking at the titan CV's or the pathfinder CV's depending on length. I can't seem to find the length of these CV's anywhere.

I am debating between a custom knuckle build or using the factory knuckle on the 1st gen and spacing the CV's for the extra A arm length.

Does anyone have the lengths of the stock X shafts?

 

[Prime]

V8 Pathy and Titan CVs are flange mounted. Only difference is overall length.

Though I'm sure the bolt pattern is different than the 1st Gen.

 

[Prime]

And I bet the spline count on the end is different too.

 

[Prime]

Titan CV: https://www.cardone.com/product/cv-axle-assembly-66-6238hd

Under product specs it shows:

ABS Ring Included:
Yes
Axle Nut Locking Type:
Standard
Compressed Length - Imperial:
22.75 in
Input Shaft Connection Style:
Bolt-On
Output Shaft Connection Style:
Splined
Output Shaft Spline Quantity:
29
Spindle Nut Included:
Yes

1st gen Xterra: https://www.cardone.com/product/cv-axle-assembly-60-6193

ABS Ring Included:
No
Compressed Length - Imperial:
22.25 in
Input Shaft Bolt Count:
6
Input Shaft Connection Style:
Bolt-On
Output Shaft Connection Style:
Spline
Spindle Nut Included:
No

Bolt pattern is completely different. Overall length is almost identical but the proportions are different. The Titan shaft definitely has a longer middle section and shorter splined end.

 

[TerryD]

What's your end goal with this? Are you wanting to focus more of desert speed or rock crawling?

 

[HolyGhost]

@Prime as always you are the best.

I know the spline count is different if I went this path I would make a custom knuckle to mount the second gen uni bearing onto as the machine work and precision can be a lot less than the 1st gen shafts since the knuckle carries the bearings.

I was hoping for a longer shaft without going custom shafts. Right now I am leaning to stick with the 1st gen shafts and knuckles but just exploring options. I don't see much gain of the pathy shaft for the extra work as of now. I also dont want to lose the sweet 1st gen wheels.

I am aiming for a 1.5" track width increase and moving the axle up a minimum of 1" forward. The torsion bars are also going in the trash.

What's your end goal with this? Are you wanting to focus more of desert speed or rock crawling?

Goal is for rock crawling. I want 35's without cutting the body up and a better approach angle plus I like the challenge.

 

[TerryD]

Ok. For rock crawling the type suspension you have is ok. For speed I was going to suggest looking into F150 TTB set-up from the 80s. IIRC you can run Chevy hubs/rotors and have the 6x5.5 pattern to match your 233.

You could run Titan wheel bearings and get the correct pattern up front, use the Titan or Xterra shafts and build new a-arms with spherical joints to allow you to align it and adjust your wheel base, get the proper length of arms, and I think would be easier to fabricate custom knuckles for vs the spindle/bearing/locking hub of the 1st Gen

 

[HolyGhost]

My buddy who is more into this than I am is already eyeballing my rusting f150 in the yard. Has the TTB setup and he wants it.

Are you saying the titan's are different wheel pattern than the Xterra?

 

[TerryD]

My buddy who is more into this than I am is already eyeballing my rusting f150 in the yard. Has the TTB setup and he wants it.

Are you saying the titan's are different wheel pattern than the Xterra?

Yes. 2nd Gen Xterra, Frontier and Pathy are 6x4.5. Titan is 6x5.5, same as 1st Gen, Chevy, Toyota, old Jeep Wagoneer, and hard bodies.

 

[HolyGhost]

Yes. 2nd Gen Xterra, Frontier and Pathy are 6x4.5. Titan is 6x5.5, same as 1st Gen, Chevy, Toyota, old Jeep Wagoneer, and hard bodies.

Well that changes a few things. Also means I have a lot of brake options for rotor size.

 

[Prime]

Yes. 2nd Gen Xterra, Frontier and Pathy are 6x4.5. Titan is 6x5.5, same as 1st Gen, Chevy, Toyota, old Jeep Wagoneer, and hard bodies.

Hub diameter needs to be in that conversation. The 1st Gen X hub diameter is way bigger than the Titan.

 

[TerryD]

Hub diameter needs to be in that conversation. The 1st Gen X hub diameter is way bigger than the Titan.

You mean because of the locking hub? If he's using 1st Gen wheels on the Titan hub then he should be OK. The factory wheels use acorn style lug nuts. He could run the hub centering rings you get with aftermarket wheels to correct fit that though.

Really, at this level of customisation, he's gonna be in good with a machine shop to make the adapters for the CV to Diff flanges and the mounting bosses in the knuckles for any type of hub or spindle. So I doubt maching out random rotor IDs to fit the Titan hub or custom brake caliper bracket mounts would be much more expense once you have them designed.

 

[TerryD]

I have to say this, just because it's the truth. SAS would be easier, faster, cheaper and perform better off-road.

There, it's said, we can move forward.

 

[HolyGhost]

Hub diameter needs to be in that conversation. The 1st Gen X hub diameter is way bigger than the Titan.

True, I could just go all titian on the front but the 350mm rotors make me nervous on the fit.

You mean because of the locking hub? If he's using 1st Gen wheels on the Titan hub then he should be OK. The factory wheels use acorn style lug nuts. He could run the hub centering rings you get with aftermarket wheels to correct fit that though.

Really, at this level of customisation, he's gonna be in good with a machine shop to make the adapters for the CV to Diff flanges and the mounting bosses in the knuckles for any type of hub or spindle. So I doubt maching out random rotor IDs to fit the Titan hub or custom brake caliper bracket mounts would be much more expense once you have them designed.

Yeah the CV adapter is the least of my worries just a disc of something hard with the correct bolt holes for each CV. Just need to decide on how hard $$$.

Knuckle with the unit bearing on the titian is not that much machining. Should be bore and spacing and that's it the bearing is all enclosed the shaft just keeps it together under load.

 

[HolyGhost]

I have to say this, just because it's the truth. SAS would be easier, faster, cheaper and perform better off-road.

There, it's said, we can move forward.

100% in every way the truth but not as cool.

To add to that if I really cared about off road performance and what makes sense I would get rid of the Nissan and buy a Jeep. Instead I am going to let this 21 year old Nissan take all my money.

 

[TerryD]

Another thing to consider is if you don't drop your diff and use extended knuckles, ever bit you lift is lost down travel due to CV and TRE angles.

Plus you're extra up travel is going to cram the tires up into your fenders, causing you to have to cut.

If you keep your UCA mounts in place, move the LCA down 1/2-2/3 of your lift height, and extend the knuckle by that much, you'll keep your static ride height closer to center of your travel window and have more down travel in the rough stuff. And probably get by with stock TREs with custom length adjusters.

 

[HolyGhost]

Another thing to consider is if you don't drop your diff and use extended knuckles, ever bit you lift is lost down travel due to CV and TRE angles.

Plus you're extra up travel is going to cram the tires up into your fenders, causing you to have to cut.

If you keep your UCA mounts in place, move the LCA down 1/2-2/3 of your lift height, and extend the knuckle by that much, you'll keep your static ride height closer to center of your travel window and have more down travel in the rough stuff. And probably get by with stock TREs with custom length adjusters.

We are thinking the same thing. Plan is to move the diff forward and down and steering forward to fix the tie rod (heims??) geometry. Body lift will help with the up but most will be down travel. Lower and upper arms will be full custom, I can bend the top arms how I need but the lowers are going to be 1.5"x.250 wall and I can't bend that.

Looks like McMaster Carr has 4" round 4140 discs. Probably use that for CV spacer.

 

[TerryD]

If you're making a dedicated crawler, trailer queen kinda thing, go heims. They're affordable enough for offroad use.

But their lack of longevity for on road use is a major concern.

You used to be able to get rebuildable "johnny" joints from Poly Performance back in the day. Those are greasable and you can replace the plastic tapered bushings in them. They were really popular on Jeep arms 15 years ago.

For steering, look into the GM "1 ton" TREs. You can buy the taper reams to cut out the drag link and knuckles. Now "1 ton" is just a label, they are actually from 1/2 ton K series trucks in the early 80s. I used to have a list of the part numbers. Which were which thread and which were which length.

But they hold up extremely well and carry warranties. We've been running a set of MOOG on my buddy's crawler for 17 years and only replaced one so far because it got bent from a bad hit backing off a rock.

 

[HolyGhost]

1 ton ends were the initial plan but drilling a straight hole is cheaper and easier than a taper. I see Barne's has the taper bit for 85$. GM ends would be cheaper too and then the adjusters are just tube with a weld insert. Lots to think about.