Revolvers

556Tactical

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Florida
First off I would like to thank everyone for the help. You guys rock.

Anyways like I said before I've only had the x for about a week and I read something about revolvers pertaining to suspension. What exactly is that?
 

Intender

Wheeling
Location
Lewisville NC
Revolvers are replacement shackles for the rear suspension. Instead of being limited to the arc the the regular shackles swing to give you more flex, revolvers fold and unfold to allow your rear axle to droop more.
Mine took me from this with 3 inch suspension lift


To this with the revolvers and a few other things



 

TJTJ

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
NJ
Yeah, Revolver Shackles rock. For me, its not just the added wheel travel, its that the down force on the drooped tire is so much better too.

The added rear traction is awesome.

They ride so much better as well. They allow the suspension to soak up irregularities like crazy.
 

556Tactical

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Florida
That is a nice truck. Props. Soooooo where do I get some and how much. Do they change ride hight. I want a lift but I'm not a bl person. Although I will if I have to. I eventually want to put 35s on but a lot of people are saying I won't fit them without a bl
 

TJTJ

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
NJ
That is a nice truck. Props. Soooooo where do I get some and how much. Do they change ride hight. I want a lift but I'm not a bl person. Although I will if I have to. I eventually want to put 35s on but a lot of people are saying I won't fit them without a bl

I don't see your truck's year in your sig, etc...so, I don't know exactly what you can fit.

Revolvers change rear height by less than an inch, because they fold up when not needed.

The options to fit 35's, for any X, are the same principle - Your wheel wells are too small to fit them and have them able to move freely and not bind off road, etc.

If you make room with only a suspension lift, you only have extra room at ride height (parked at the mall for example), but, when you brake, corner or go over a bump, compressing the suspension, the tire rises up and hits whatever it would have w/o the lift.

So, you can remove the fenders/parts the tire would have hit (Free, if the mad max look works for you), or, do a BL to accomplish about the same thing but without the sawzall/mad max thing.

For the 1st gen X's (2000 - 2004), the 35's hit the rear of the well by the front doors, and, metal is in the way even with a 3" BL...so you have to massage it with a BFH, etc, until the 35's clear.

For the 2nd Gen X's (2005+), its similar, but essentially a question of degree.

For either gen, a 3" BL is a good first mod if you think 35's are in your eventual future...as the more BL, the easier it will be. 3" is the limit for a BL for several reasons, with a 2" BL being more common by far...as most people are happy with 33's.

8999153641_5e4f2b61be_b.jpg

This is my 2004 when I first got it, and all I had done was a 3" BL, and mounted 33x12.5's....everything else was still stock.

8999170951_f8fe8a5d29_b.jpg






5684871867_b93e3c6fe6_b.jpg


This is my 2001 with Revolvers....but only a 2" BL.

5684864589_f460e5de29_b.jpg



5002929170_159c40db1f_b.jpg
 

556Tactical

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Florida
I have a 2000. I guess a bl is coming in my immediate future. Never thought of the sl that way. So should I even worry at all about a suspension lift or should I put it on the back burner for now
 

TJTJ

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
NJ
I have a 2000. I guess a bl is coming in my immediate future. Never thought of the sl that way. So should I even worry at all about a suspension lift or should I put it on the back burner for now


Think of it this way:

The BL is for tires if going larger than 32's.

The SL is for frame clearance off road. If you get longer shackles, shocks, etc, you also get better articulation....which helps the tires stay on the ground.

Your diffs, spring hangers, etc, are the same distance up from the ground after a BL OR SL....only taller TIRES lift those parts....and the REST OF THE RIG with them.


So, if you are going to get sliders or bumpers, and, plan on larger tires down the road, then, do the BL now, so the sliders and bumpers, later, can be made to fit w/o a gap....and, you can get whatever tires too when ready.

If the big tires and other stuff are very far off, but you want to prioritize articulation...then adding the Revolvers and longer shocks, etc, makes sense....and so forth.


Just think about the ORDER of things that would work for you, and make a plan to get from point A to Point B.


If it was all about tires, then the BL is job #1.
 

Tay-Lo

I'm the king of junk food!
Location
Upstate SC
Yeah I'm possibly going to have a 3" kit by WENT....if I can have extra money. I saw the flex Casey got with the Articualtion kit and it was awesome.
 

SASXA

First Fill-Up (of many)
I hate mine, but I also do a lot more serious stuff than trail riding flat ground. They unload like a sum ***** on descents of hills and give me a ton of wheel hop in the rocks.
 

Jbat

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Utah
I hate mine, but I also do a lot more serious stuff than trail riding flat ground. They unload like a sum ***** on descents of hills and give me a ton of wheel hop in the rocks.

trade you a set of new calminis for them, bolted my calminis on but want the revolvers for the greater weight on the tire when flexed out, and the slightly lower ride height. I had a set on jeep Cherokee and loved them, never experienced this 'unloading' people have talked about and they have never given me wheel hop, but I have also always had traction/anti wrap bars on my rigs so maybe that helped.
 

TJTJ

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
NJ
I hate mine, but I also do a lot more serious stuff than trail riding flat ground. They unload like a sum ***** on descents of hills and give me a ton of wheel hop in the rocks.

LOL

A stock rig is fine for flat trails.

As for wheel hop and what you think is "unloading":

That's your shocks not the Revolvers.

They don't "unload" on descents any more than a coil sprung rig "unloads" on descents.

I looked during descents, and, there's no such thing actually.

There's what people seem to THINK is "unloading", but, its not happening.


Essentially, a coil sprung rig is "held down" the same way a shackle sprung rig is, by the rig's COG, not by the coil or pack.

Mine gave ZERO hop in rocks UNLESS I had insufficient damping (Shocks). When I matched the shocks to the loads, it was perfect...cruised through rock gardens w/o a hiccup.

When I took the rear shocks OFF altogether, the hop with the Calmini shackles was absurd...and, so was the hop with the revolvers and no shocks in the rocks.

My wife said it gave her shaken baby syndrome.

So, If you have the right shocks, no hop with revolvers, at all.

If you have NO shocks, bad hop. If you have bad shocks, bad hop. etc.



I have used a teeter board, steep slopes, etc...and, there are no conditions in which I can make a coil sprung or Revolver sprung rig actually have the body float off, needing the coils or shackles to hold it down.....unloading is a myth.


If you run the physics on it, you can see for your self, but, watching the suspension from the outside when a person THINKS they are "unloading" is the most telling if you don't like physics.

:D

Usually, its insufficient damping, so they pitch and yaw when the shocks don't damp the motion adequately.

I can make my wrangler or X simulate this by using weak shocks...and correct it by using stronger shocks. For some trails, the twin tube shocks faded from all the cycling, and shocks that were fine on the road/easier trails, would get so hot they could no longer turn motion into heat, and, stopped damping...and then the hop and see saw motions, etc. could get whacky.


On the jeep, there are control arms back to the axle, and, on the X, the front leaf mount to axle clamp section performs essentially the same function.

They both act as arms that trail back to the axle, so the axle goes up/down in an arc from that forward pivot point.

On the jeep, the axle stops drooping when the shocks run out of extension or the rear shaft hits its limit, etc....and, on the X, its still analogous, stopping for the same reasons.


Both are live axles, and, they both swing in a similar arc.

They both have a body on a frame, and, the suspension supports the weight of their frames.


If I go down a steep slope in the jeep, if my center of gravity doesn't get forward of my two front tires...I don't do an end over flip.

My center of gravity is what the suspension is supporting...so, if I "unweight the suspension" going down a steep slope, its because got my COG too far forward...and the TYPE of suspension that is no longer supporting weight becomes irrelevant....I'm going over.

My coils are not "holding me down"...they hold the rig UP, and, the weight of the rig is what makes the frame rest on the suspension.

So, the frame holds things down, the suspension doesn't hold things DOWN.


So, if a coil sprung rig can't make the frame magically float away because the "coils are not holding the frame down"....then neither would a leaf sprung rig with longer shackles, which is all Revolvers work as.
 
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Jbat

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Utah
LOL

A stock rig is fine for flat trails.

As for wheel hop and what you think is "unloading":

That's your shocks not the Revolvers.

They don't "unload" on descents any more than a coil sprung rig "unloads" on descents.

I looked during descents, and, there's no such thing actually.

There's what people seem to THINK is "unloading", but, its not happening.


Essentially, a coil sprung rig is "held down" the same way a shackle sprung rig is, by the rig's COG, not by the coil or pack.

Mine gave ZERO hop in rocks UNLESS I had insufficient damping (Shocks). When I matched the shocks to the loads, it was perfect...cruised through rock gardens w/o a hiccup.

When I took the rear shocks OFF altogether, the hop with the Calmini shackles was absurd...and, so was the hop with the revolvers and no shocks in the rocks.

My wife said it gave her shaken baby syndrome.

So, If you have the right shocks, no hop with revolvers, at all.

If you have NO shocks, bad hop. If you have bad shocks, bad hop. etc.



I have used a teeter board, steep slopes, etc...and, there are no conditions in which I can make a coil sprung or Revolver sprung rig actually have the body float off, needing the coils or shackles to hold it down.....unloading is a myth.


If you run the physics on it, you can see for your self, but, watching the suspension from the outside when a person THINKS they are "unloading" is the most telling if you don't like physics.

:D

Usually, its insufficient damping, so they pitch and yaw when the shocks don't damp the motion adequately.

I can make my wrangler or X simulate this by using weak shocks...and correct it by using stronger shocks. For some trails, the twin tube shocks faded from all the cycling, and shocks that were fine on the road/easier trails, would get so hot they could no longer turn motion into heat, and, stopped damping...and then the hop and see saw motions, etc. could get whacky.


On the jeep, there are control arms back to the axle, and, on the X, the front leaf mount to axle clamp section performs essentially the same function.

They both act as arms that trail back to the axle, so the axle goes up/down in an arc from that forward pivot point.

On the jeep, the axle stops drooping when the shocks run out of extension or the rear shaft hits its limit, etc....and, on the X, its still analogous, stopping for the same reasons.


Both are live axles, and, they both swing in a similar arc.

They both have a body on a frame, and, the suspension supports the weight of their frames.


If I go down a steep slope in the jeep, if my center of gravity doesn't get forward of my two front tires...I don't do an end over flip.

My center of gravity is what the suspension is supporting...so, if I "unweight the suspension" going down a steep slope, its because got my COG too far forward...and the TYPE of suspension that is no longer supporting weight becomes irrelevant....I'm going over.

My coils are not "holding me down"...they hold the rig UP, and, the weight of the rig is what makes the frame rest on the suspension.

So, the frame holds things down, the suspension doesn't hold things DOWN.


So, if a coil sprung rig can't make the frame magically float away because the "coils are not holding the frame down"....then neither would a leaf sprung rig with longer shackles, which is all Revolvers work as.

This forum needs a 'Thanks' button
 

556Tactical

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Florida
I completely agree. Dude I think every question I've ever asked in here you have given a solid answer thank you


Sent from galactic space communicator
 

556Tactical

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
Florida
I actually wish I new about those sooner I would have put them on my Toyota. Oh well I'll eventually get it up here and put them on


Sent from galactic space communicator
 

SASXA

First Fill-Up (of many)
LOL

A stock rig is fine for flat trails.

As for wheel hop and what you think is "unloading":

That's your shocks not the Revolvers.

They don't "unload" on descents any more than a coil sprung rig "unloads" on descents.

I looked during descents, and, there's no such thing actually.

There's what people seem to THINK is "unloading", but, its not happening.


Essentially, a coil sprung rig is "held down" the same way a shackle sprung rig is, by the rig's COG, not by the coil or pack.

Mine gave ZERO hop in rocks UNLESS I had insufficient damping (Shocks). When I matched the shocks to the loads, it was perfect...cruised through rock gardens w/o a hiccup.

When I took the rear shocks OFF altogether, the hop with the Calmini shackles was absurd...and, so was the hop with the revolvers and no shocks in the rocks.

My wife said it gave her shaken baby syndrome.

So, If you have the right shocks, no hop with revolvers, at all.

If you have NO shocks, bad hop. If you have bad shocks, bad hop. etc.



I have used a teeter board, steep slopes, etc...and, there are no conditions in which I can make a coil sprung or Revolver sprung rig actually have the body float off, needing the coils or shackles to hold it down.....unloading is a myth.


If you run the physics on it, you can see for your self, but, watching the suspension from the outside when a person THINKS they are "unloading" is the most telling if you don't like physics.

:D

Usually, its insufficient damping, so they pitch and yaw when the shocks don't damp the motion adequately.

I can make my wrangler or X simulate this by using weak shocks...and correct it by using stronger shocks. For some trails, the twin tube shocks faded from all the cycling, and shocks that were fine on the road/easier trails, would get so hot they could no longer turn motion into heat, and, stopped damping...and then the hop and see saw motions, etc. could get whacky.


On the jeep, there are control arms back to the axle, and, on the X, the front leaf mount to axle clamp section performs essentially the same function.

They both act as arms that trail back to the axle, so the axle goes up/down in an arc from that forward pivot point.

On the jeep, the axle stops drooping when the shocks run out of extension or the rear shaft hits its limit, etc....and, on the X, its still analogous, stopping for the same reasons.


Both are live axles, and, they both swing in a similar arc.

They both have a body on a frame, and, the suspension supports the weight of their frames.


If I go down a steep slope in the jeep, if my center of gravity doesn't get forward of my two front tires...I don't do an end over flip.

My center of gravity is what the suspension is supporting...so, if I "unweight the suspension" going down a steep slope, its because got my COG too far forward...and the TYPE of suspension that is no longer supporting weight becomes irrelevant....I'm going over.

My coils are not "holding me down"...they hold the rig UP, and, the weight of the rig is what makes the frame rest on the suspension.

So, the frame holds things down, the suspension doesn't hold things DOWN.


So, if a coil sprung rig can't make the frame magically float away because the "coils are not holding the frame down"....then neither would a leaf sprung rig with longer shackles, which is all Revolvers work as.

You're absolutely right, I have no idea how my vehicle works. I'll just stick to tradition methods. Only difference between having the revolvers and the coil springs, the revolvers have no spring rate. And a stock jeep, which I bet you're referring too has a linked suspension which in turn has good AS and AD numbers, running a radius arm vehicle I have a high AD which makes the rear end act completely different than a 4 linked rig with a track bar. But my shocks are trash, way too high of a valving on them, should fix them eventually. After I take out the 0 spring rate revolvers, if anyone wants them, I'll sell them for $100 shipped inside the US. I do know how suspensions work, just for reference, building them gives you a good look at how they work.

And running the revolvers my RAA changes a ton when they extend so that also is a problem, eventually I'll get a linked suspension made up with some nice re-valved shocks for the rear.
 

TJTJ

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
NJ
You're absolutely right, I have no idea how my vehicle works. I'll just stick to tradition methods. Only difference between having the revolvers and the coil springs, the revolvers have no spring rate. And a stock jeep, which I bet you're referring too has a linked suspension which in turn has good AS and AD numbers, running a radius arm vehicle I have a high AD which makes the rear end act completely different than a 4 linked rig with a track bar. But my shocks are trash, way too high of a valving on them, should fix them eventually. After I take out the 0 spring rate revolvers, if anyone wants them, I'll sell them for $100 shipped inside the US. I do know how suspensions work, just for reference, building them gives you a good look at how they work.

And running the revolvers my RAA changes a ton when they extend so that also is a problem, eventually I'll get a linked suspension made up with some nice re-valved shocks for the rear.


LOL

Talking about, Revolvers, not the entire rig, or what you know, just the part relative to "unloading".

I also noticed you refer to the shackle you want instead, apparently as having a spring rate, as opposed to influencing spring rate of the pack, via jacking, etc.

As you indicate you build suspensions, I'll assume you have your own uses for these terms, etc.

(On the other hand, if you are not referring to the changes a shackle can impose on a pack's effective spring rate, and mean that the shackle itself has a set spring rate, independent of a pack, or just meant that compared to coils, shackles in general, revolvers included, had no spring rate, I would actually love to hear some info/explanations on that. I'm always open to new info....and I don't get insulted, honest)

Anyway, I hope the changes fix your wheel hop, etc.
 
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NMTerras

Suspension Lift
Location
New Mexico
Well, I don't have the time or the inclination to get into this one with both feet, and this topic has been debated extensively throughout the forums. BUT...don't just accept one person's word as law. Lots of people hate revolvers, consider them dangerous, and of no use other than pretty pictures of rear wheels drooping farther than they would otherwise. Do your research. IMO, revolvers are a cheap and not good substitute for actual suspension upgrades.

If you want to read how people really feel, go spend some time on Pirate. Just don't have easily butthurt feelings....

"The only thing they are good for is uncontrolled droop which means bigger scores and bragging rights during RTI competitions. They were a cheap fix when the whole huge flex fad was going on and everybody wanted huge wheel travel, without spending the money on a good suspension, and at the cost of safety and performance. They suck, they are dangerous."
 

xterror04

Site sponsor
Founding Member
Location
Carlisle, Iowa
What is everyone's measurement from revolvers?... How much droop are you guys getting? Because it really doesn't look much more then me with regular shackles...and this isn't full flex
 

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NMTerras

Suspension Lift
Location
New Mexico
Well, I don't have the time or the inclination to get into this one with both feet, and this topic has been debated extensively throughout the forums. BUT...don't just accept one person's word as law. Lots of people hate revolvers, consider them dangerous, and of no use other than pretty pictures of rear wheels drooping farther than they would otherwise. Do your research. IMO, revolvers are a cheap and not good substitute for actual suspension upgrades.

If you want to read how people really feel, go spend some time on Pirate. Just don't have easily butthurt feelings....

"The only thing they are good for is uncontrolled droop which means bigger scores and bragging rights during RTI competitions. They were a cheap fix when the whole huge flex fad was going on and everybody wanted huge wheel travel, without spending the money on a good suspension, and at the cost of safety and performance. They suck, they are dangerous."

One clarification, for me - A good bit of my offroading is at speed. I need hybrid crawling/hauling ass manners. I don't know if I just did slow speed stuff whether i'd like em, but I know for sure I don't want em when I'm bombing down a forest road at 50 and hit ruts. Just my perspective.
 

Intender

Wheeling
Location
Lewisville NC
What is everyone's measurement from revolvers?... How much droop are you guys getting? Because it really doesn't look much more then me with regular shackles...and this isn't full flex
I dont have any pics with a tape measure when i got mine to full droop, but i am sitting right around 23 inches from the top of my 33's to the bottom of the wheel well.
ac202761520674fb82649977304cbd36.jpg

I actually got the tire to lift just before that but my truck slid down the rock a bit and i couldnt get back in the same spot again.
 

SteeevO

First Fill-Up (of many)
Location
fontana,ca

TJTJ

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
NJ
Well, I don't have the time or the inclination to get into this one with both feet, and this topic has been debated extensively throughout the forums. BUT...don't just accept one person's word as law. Lots of people hate revolvers, consider them dangerous, and of no use other than pretty pictures of rear wheels drooping farther than they would otherwise. Do your research. IMO, revolvers are a cheap and not good substitute for actual suspension upgrades.

If you want to read how people really feel, go spend some time on Pirate. Just don't have easily butthurt feelings....

"The only thing they are good for is uncontrolled droop which means bigger scores and bragging rights during RTI competitions. They were a cheap fix when the whole huge flex fad was going on and everybody wanted huge wheel travel, without spending the money on a good suspension, and at the cost of safety and performance. They suck, they are dangerous."

LOL

The tests say otherwise.

:D

All four wheeler did is repeat the old myths and dogma.

In actual tests, NONE of the myths held true.

In fact, the revolvers had droop with MORE ground pressure, not less....so they gave more traction at droop than std shackles could.

This is due to the exact same reasons a coil sprung axle works better, there's no fighting the pack to push the tire down as far.


Of course, the revolvers, being shackles, DO run out of droop, and then, the progressive loss of ground pressure kicks in just like for any shackle....its just that the revolvers are drooped a lot farther before that happens.


:D
 
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TJTJ

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
NJ
What is everyone's measurement from revolvers?... How much droop are you guys getting? Because it really doesn't look much more then me with regular shackles...and this isn't full flex


attachment.php

Regular Lift Shackles



5685437890_0c07a71c41_b.jpg

With Revolvers, also not fully extended.


The actual flex itself can be duplicated with a new flexy pack (Alcan, etc). The ride is better, and the actual down force/traction is better with the Revolvers though, as the pack flex doesn't fight the articulation as early in the droop with Revolvers.

The regular lift shackles run out of droop earlier, and, the pack's resistance to bowing is then fighting the droop, so more force is required to push the end of the axle down....

...whereas the revolvers allow the droop to continue further before the pack's resistance progressively reduces the ground pressure available.

A coil sprung axle has no pack resistance of course, and will have even more droop w/o resistance, and so forth.
 

Intender

Wheeling
Location
Lewisville NC
I can say for a fact that with revolvers i was able to get over obstacles i couldnt get over without them. And i was only getting maybe a couple inches of extra flex at that time. Since i moved my shocks up to the axle to get more droop in the rear i also got a lokka in the front so i cant vouch for how much the extra flex is helping since the lokka tends to pull me over most obstacles with ease.
 

robcarync

Sliders
Location
Raleigh, NC
LOL

The tests say otherwise.

:D

All four wheeler did is repeat the old myths and dogma.

In actual tests, NONE of the myths held true.

In fact, the revolvers had droop with MORE ground pressure, not less....so they gave more traction at droop than std shackles could.

This is due to the exact same reasons a coil sprung axle works better, there's no fighting the pack to push the tire down as far.


Of course, the revolvers, being shackles, DO run out of droop, and then, the progressive loss of ground pressure kicks in just like for any shackle....its just that the revolvers are drooped a lot farther before that happens.


:D

Physics rules.

The weight of the tire doesn't keep the truck down on the ground by pulling DOWN on the shackle. The shackle has no spring rate...it is a rigid 2 force member. It is like saying if you have a coil spring suspension, the truck will float away if you don't have the coil welded to the buckets/retainers since the springs can't PULL the frame back down.

The weight of the truck is held UP by the compressed side...not pulled down by the drooped side. The amount that you lean is dependent on the spring rate on the compressed side, not how far the other side droops.

If you are going down a hill...and you "unload" your revolvers...but you don't "unload" your normal shackles: you have reached the point where SO much weight is frontwards, that your rear end is being held to the ground ONLY by the weight of your tires and rear axle. A couple hundred pounds keeping you from flipping end over end? Compare that weight to the cab, cargo, frame, etc...you are probably not able to drive in any controlled manner down a hill that steep.

That being said...going with revolver shackles is physically similar to shaving a couple hundred pounds off the rear end since you don't have the axle weight pulling the truck down until full droop. It is about the same as removing a full sized spare...tool box...trail spares, etc. Add back in a heavy duty bumper or a tire carrier...it really is negligible.

The ULTIMATE TRUTH ABOUT GRAVITY: In situations where you get unloading on rear revolver shackles...that means that without revolvers...your rear tires are in the AIR...or at least within the weight of the axle from being in the air. Gravity wants to pull this heavy truck to the ground...so it does not need the rigid shackle to pull it down.
 
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TJTJ

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
NJ
On a live axle, when one side is up and the other down, the leverage is where the down force is coming from, more than from weight itself.

If you think of the axle as an upside down "see saw" with the fulcrum being the STUFFED side's axle/leaf pack connection, so that when the stuffed side is rising, its levering the drooped side DOWN, pivoting off that fulcrum point.

So, sure, the weight of the axle, etc, is part of the load, but, the primary force is the leverage exerted on the opposite side....which is the suspension side that's primarily supporting the weight of the rig.

The unsprung weight on the drooped side, is the only rig weight that is involved with down force on the drooped side. The compressed side is supported.

This is why a coil sprung rig is better as far as downforce and traction. There's no coil being stretched to fight the droop leverage....it can lever down as far as it can w/o progressive resistance losses.

The leaf sprung rigs, no matter HOW long the shackle, eventually progressively pull back against that leverage, reducing available ground force.



This is not theory. The above was shown in tests that measured the down force and traction, and found that the coil sprung rigs were the winners, followed by revolvers, and then by lift shackle lengths.

The longer the shackle, the farther the drooped side CAN droop, before the limit is reached and the pack's resistance reduces down force.

If there's no shackle at all, there is no associated limit, and the down force can continue as per the available leverage.

Revolvers simply allow a leaf sprung rig to get closer to a coil sprung rig's performance.


Those who believed that the droop from revolvers were all show and didn't work off road, were lied to/fooled, and, many repeated these myths ad nauseam....leading others to be fooled, and then repeat the myths as gospel, etc.

There are no tests that show that ANY of the myths are correct. There ARE tests that prove ALL the myths are false.



:D
 

robcarync

Sliders
Location
Raleigh, NC
100% agreement. More so talking about the concept of "unloading" where the rear end of the truck bounces and lifts up because the shackles aren't holding the frame down to the axle...not so much the traction on the drooped tire.

In order for the rear end to unload on a bump or a hill...it has to be a big enough jolt to lift the truck up against gravity...revolver or standard shackle. The only difference is standard shackles are rigid...so if a bump pushes the frame up, it has to pull the axle up too once the shackle swings in. The revolvers just unfold (IE: swing in) much more before the weight of the axle is felt by the frame moving up.


Moral of the story is that for them to "unload", the jolt or bump has to be big enough to fight against the gravity holding the truck down. In this case, standard shackles would likely result in your rear tires air born, unless the force of the bump was right in that transition area that the weight of the axle pulling down on the shackle was the only thing keeping your rear tires from leaving the ground.

Not sure if I am explaining this clearly, or if it makes sense...

I know I don't worry about my rear tires flying off the pavement with standard shackles...
 
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TJTJ

Skid Plates
Founding Member
Location
NJ
Right, gravity and momentum are what make things go in that context.


Essentially, if a rig is rolling along, and you hit a bump, the suspension compresses, and, a revolver, coil, or std shackle will all simply let it.

If the suspension is properly damped, the tires will come up with the bump, and follow it back down...with no bouncing or pogo-ing, etc.

If the tires hit a dip instead of a bump, the tire is unweighted, and, the suspension allows it to drop down and then ride back up.

For a coil sprung rig, the coil, from ride height, might be slightly compressed on the bump, and then the damping has to also damp the coil's tendency to fling the sprung weight back up (pogo) on the rebound. A leaf sprung rig might also compress/flatten more on that compression cycle, and need damping on the rebound, etc....to also avoid that pogo effect. The shackles swing in/out as the suspension cycles too, enough so that the shackle's arc becomes part of that cycle. A longer shackle can swing in/out farther, and potentially help to absorb some of the ride motion that the pack would otherwise be flexing in response to...reducing the pack's need for damping.

The Revolver concept was invented by Goodrich BECAUSE of its ability to ride smoother, they called them Velvet Ride Shackles". (I keep saying goodyear though...sigh...)

:D
 
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Cruecible

Titan Swapped / SAS'd
Location
Albuquerque, NM
I created a voice in my head of how you sound when I read your posts TJ. I try to make it sound like Morgan Freeman, but with all your dramatic capitalization of words and punctuation pauses, it often more times sounds like Christopher Walken.
 

Cruecible

Titan Swapped / SAS'd
Location
Albuquerque, NM
Just so I don't go off-topic here, I've been on the fence for a while about revolvers. I would say it falls about midway down my priority list, but I still need to do more research and find people locally who run them.
 

NMTerras

Suspension Lift
Location
New Mexico
Right, gravity and momentum are what make things go in that context.


Essentially, if a rig is rolling along, and you hit a bump, the suspension compresses, and, a revolver, coil, or std shackle will all simply let it.

If the suspension is properly damped, the tires will come up with the bump, and follow it back down...with no bouncing or pogo-ing, etc.

If the tires hit a dip instead of a bump, the tire is unweighted, and, the suspension allows it to drop down and then ride back up.

For a coil sprung rig, the coil, from ride height, might be slightly compressed on the bump, and then the damping has to also damp the coil's tendency to fling the sprung weight back up (pogo) on the rebound. A leaf sprung rig might also compress/flatten more on that compression cycle, and need damping on the rebound, etc....to also avoid that pogo effect. The shackles swing in/out as the suspension cycles too, enough so that the shackle's arc becomes part of that cycle. A longer shackle can swing in/out farther, and potentially help to absorb some of the ride motion that the pack would otherwise be flexing in response to...reducing the pack's need for damping.

The Revolver was invented by Goodyear BECAUSE of its ability to ride smoother, they called them Velvet Ride Shackles".

:D

Aren't pivot shackles and revolver shackles different animals? The velvet ride shackle is a pivot on one axis that actually does help dampen buck, at least that was the goal, for unweighted leaf-sprung trucks. there is no rotation, as with revolvers. Two different applications.

I get it though. You heart revolvers. Like, a lot. But I sure would like to see your conclusions supported by more than just your conclusions. "LOL"
 

metzican

Suspension Lift
Location
Lafaytte, la
I think it is pretty simple, Revolvers are like running a weea lsd. Regular setup is like running no lsd. In the end the best setup is to lock that axle.
 
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