Nismo's AR Build

[NismoFire]

Nismo's AR Build UPDATE 3/20/13

So thanks to Kelly (RacerXXL) and the interwebz, I have officially begun my AR build. "You need to finish your truck first," you say? Well, not so fast...depending on how this upcoming election goes, I may not have the opportunity to do this build. Truck parts will ALWAYS be available. Firearm components, not so much..


Now, enough with the politics and on with the build.

I started this project in my brain about 2 years ago. I've always wanted to own an AR, and tossed around the idea of buying a rifle. THEN I found ARFCOM (ar15.com) and decided to BUILD it, the way I wanted it, on my specs/terms. My goal with this EBR is to be able to defend my home/family, and also serve double-duty as duty weapon while at my contracting job. Because of this, I decided on a 16" 1:8 barrel. This will give me enough mechanical help to get down to the .75MOA goal I set for this build. It has the short-range (<100yds) and long-range (>200yds) versatility that I'm looking for, all while maintaining mechanical accuracy. Assisting in this task will be a Mid-Length Length gas system nestled into a PSA flat-top upper receiver. Below that will be a PSA lower/M4 stock with MilSpec buffer.


Before shipping/FFL fees, this build is right at $600. If I can find parts on sale, it will be cheaper than this. Originally, this was to be a non-budget build, but I've found (through research) that there are good quality parts at a decent price that will build one HELL of a rifle.

UPDATE 3/20/13: Thanks to the election and Newtown, parts have disappeared and skyrocketed. Everyone is in full-retard panic mode. BUT, since the AWB won't pass, parts should start showing back up in stock soon, and hopefully near pre-panic prices. As of right now, including shipping, I have $508.44 in this rifle, and I'm still missing some pricier parts. This panic buy has KILLED my budget build. Thank gobble I had a lower before all this happened.

Also, I hate this M4 stock. I'll be getting a Magpul stock eventually to replace it. It just doesn't feel right with armor. Without armor, it's fine, but shouldered with both carriers, it sucks.



COMPONENTS (clickable):

PSA Lower Parts Kit (w/ MilSpec buffer)
PSA Upper Receiver
PSA Lower Receiver
16" Mid-length 1:8 barrel from JoeBobOutfitters



UPDATED 3/20/2013:

 

[Maxterra]

I concur with all your choices, and also agree with green furniture!

Built me a few with influence from that site.

I'm maxterra, and I approve this message!

 

[NismoFire]

Oooooo, me likey green!


Yeah, I love the look of the black/tan (also a VERY tasty adult beverage), but for practical purposes, I need either the green or just black.

 

[jmnielsen]

I will be following this. I would love to build one, especially if it's cheaper than buying from a retail store. Be sure to post where you buy everything!

 

[NismoFire]

It will be linked in the OP. You should see my spreadsheet...

 

[Maxterra]

Not only are they cheap(er) and fun to build, but the knowledge you gain building your own is valuable.

I really want to do an SBR (short barreled rifle, AR15) next.

Great for vehicle carry.

 

[tommyboy]

Hey Max, I like that forward grip brother!

 

[dhyde79]

nismo: what's your targeted purpose with the build? I've found someplace that has a pretty good deal on barrels, I'm currently hunting either a 20" or 24", and have found a nice HBAR threaded 20" from criterion, or either a fluted 20" stainless steel bull (threaded) or non-fluted 24" stainless steel bull (threaded) all right around the $200-300 price range. their smaller barrels were a bit cheaper obviously. (I think a 16" was around $150 for an HBAR and less for a "standard profile" one, though, I think they're 1:8 twist, which, is adequate for up to 77gr ultramatch ammo)

if accuracy is your goal, don't forget to go free float handguard as well.

 

[jmnielsen]

nismo: what's your targeted purpose with the build? I've found someplace that has a pretty good deal on barrels, I'm currently hunting either a 20" or 24", and have found a nice HBAR threaded 20" from criterion, or either a fluted 20" stainless steel bull (threaded) or non-fluted 24" stainless steel bull (threaded) all right around the $200-300 price range. their smaller barrels were a bit cheaper obviously. (I think a 16" was around $150 for an HBAR and less for a "standard profile" one, though, I think they're 1:8 twist, which, is adequate for up to 77gr ultramatch ammo)

if accuracy is your goal, don't forget to go free float handguard as well.

Link to the barrels?

 

[dhyde79]

I'll get it for ya'll tonight, I'm at work and all things related to firearms or weapons gets blocked by our firewall/filter....

 

[jmnielsen]

That's fine^. I'm just doing some searching for now and like to use resources that I know other people like.

 

[dhyde79]

here's the 20" HBAR http://www.fulton-armory.com/barrelfa20nmhbarcm1x8threaded.aspx (match grade)
here's the site that had both bull barrels http://www.ar15depot.com/barrels.htm

I'm pretty sure I've decided to go for the 20" HBAR, everyone I've talked to has said that's the better direction for what I'm looking at.

for Nismo, if you're wanting a 16" here's a good match grade one for you... http://www.fulton-armory.com/barrelfa16hbarcm1x8threadedchromelined.aspx it'll be a bit heavier than a standard barrel, but, more accurate

 

[Chucktshoes]

Looking at the barrels on the Fulton Armory site there is one thing that really sticks out to me, they do not list the barrel steel. "Ordinance grade chrome moly steel" sounds like a real nice way to dance around the fact that you aren't using the correct barrel steel. I would contact Fulton directly and confirm exactly what steel they at using before you buy.

Here is a link to the famous (or infamous depending on who you ask) AR comparison chart. It lists the Technical Data Package (TDP) specs for something to actually meet "milspec" and what the major manufacturers actually do or do not meet. Some folks can get butthurt defending the purchase of inferior products. The chart doesn't make judgments, it just lists facts. Milspec isn't the be all, end all for AR quality, what you plan on doing with your rifle will have a lot to do with how you build it, but there is a saying when it comes to these decisions. "Buy once, cry once" it is worth it to spend the money on if not tier 1 items, at least a known quantity tier 2 part. If you cheap out on most everything, at least make sure you get a tier 1 BCG.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html

 

[dhyde79]

chucktshoes, to answer your question, looking at that sheet, I'd presume that "ORD4150" would be "Ordinance Grade 4150 Chromoly" and Criterion Barrels is a division of Kreiger Barrels...and since I've yet to find anyone complaining about kreiger, and know a few friends that're using those Criterion barrels on 3gun built AR's and a "day at the range" for them usually is 400-800 rounds, and they go multiple times per week, I'd say I'm willing to trust them. One person says according to his log book for his rifle, he's got in excess of 43,000 rounds through his AR with an 18" criterion barrel. (and he said about 23K of that is on the current barrel, and until it starts losing accuracy, he's not replacing it because it's his tack driver)

 

[Chucktshoes]

I am not saying they aren't quality, I have no way of knowing if they are or aren't. I am just saying contact them directly for complete information. Never presume something from vague or incomplete descriptions.

As I am sure you are well aware, since the expiration of the AWB in 04, the AR market has exploded. There are dozens of companies making parts for ARs now and plenty of them produce solid kit. There are also lots of them that pawn off substandard kit as something it isn't. I am just recommending that one should never make an assumption that a product is solid without having all the details. Know exactly what you are buying so you don't get burned.

I'm not trying to run down your choices or get into an appendage measuring contest, just recommending extra caution when dealing with non tier 1 manufacturers.

Nismo, sorry for the thread derail.

 

[NismoFire]

It's all good...keep the info coming.


To answer your original question as to why the 1:7" twist- like you said, heavier loads are held tighter with that twist. I wanted the 16" so it was short enough for CQB, but long enough to be more than capable of long range shots (+200m). Personally, my longest shot so far has been 270yds with a Browning A-Bolt in .270 and I'd like to go further than that while still maintaining close range.

 

[NismoFire]

Just ordered a blemished lower from PSA. My rifle won't be a safe queen, so I don't care what it looks like. They guarantee it to function/fire, so I'm good with it.

 

[jmnielsen]

Saw in the other thread you got that complete lower build kit on sale, good timing for you as its back up to $115! I'm gonna sit around til it is on sale again.

 

[NismoFire]

Just follow them on Facebook. They post their Daily Deals and regular sales/specials on there so you don't have to check their site everyday.



So far, I'm up to $152.94 including shipping on this build. I am not including FFL/Background check fees in this, as it is required by all who purchase a lower receiver. Still haven't decided on a barrel yet.

 

[dhyde79]

To answer your original question as to why the 1:7" twist- like you said, heavier loads are held tighter with that twist. I wanted the 16" so it was short enough for CQB, but long enough to be more than capable of long range shots (+200m).

I agree, but, in my looking, 1:7 twists are harder to find in stock right now, and when I am finding them, they're much more pricey, a 1:8 will stabilize the heavy rounds and not be too much for the light weight ones, it's a nice "right up the middle", and, I'm finding more 1:8's in stock....I'd say keep it as an open option.

 

[dhyde79]

you *CAN* get around the FFL, but, to do so, you've got to buy an uncompleted one and finish the milling, but then you're building your own rifle, thusly it's not serialized, nor manufacturer listed, so, you can make an AR from parts without having to register it, but, to be honest, a transfer fee is much cheaper than the process to finish the milling process for the lower. (and a lot faster)

 

[NismoFire]

I agree, but, in my looking, 1:7 twists are harder to find in stock right now, and when I am finding them, they're much more pricey, a 1:8 will stabilize the heavy rounds and not be too much for the light weight ones, it's a nice "right up the middle", and, I'm finding more 1:8's in stock....I'd say keep it as an open option.

I'll definitely keep it in mind. I've noticed it's super hard to find 1:7s that are actually stocked. My LGS has a DD 16" 1:7 and they want friggin $399 for it! I've found the same one online for $349, but I still don't want to spend that much if I can help it.

 

[jmnielsen]

I've found quite a few 1:7s in stock. I'll see if I can find them again. And thanks for the facebook tip! I didn't even think about that.

 

[dhyde79]

I'll definitely keep it in mind. I've noticed it's super hard to find 1:7s that are actually stocked. My LGS has a DD 16" 1:7 and they want friggin $399 for it! I've found the same one online for $349, but I still don't want to spend that much if I can help it.

wow....that 20" for $200 sounds fantastic now

DD look nice, but, they don't make anything longer than an 18"

About Barrel Twist
By Corey Sattler (Webmanager@olyarms.com)


Here is the info I have collected for .223 twist ratios from various sources (including in-house testing & ammo manf. contacts).

1x7 - technically too tight of a twist for any .224 bullet widely available, including the 80 gr. Manufactured originally to stabilize SS109 and/or tracer ammo, but further military testing has shown other twists to be superior. Some of the very heavy custom stuff (87 gr?) may work well, but why????

1x8 - great twist for 69-80 gr bullets. Sierra once informed me that the perfect twist for their 80gr was 1x8.2xxxxx (blah blah blah big long engineers explanation followed).

1x9 - good all around twist ratio. Best suited for 52-69 gr, but either end of the envelope will be questionable.

1x10 - practically the same as 1x9, but favors the lighter side a little more.

1x12 - great for the 40-52 gr bullets. Most often found on bolt action rifles as their primary use is varminting. All right for the 55 gr, but not the best.

1x14 - if you want to understabilize the .224 bullet, use this twist. Useless except for tumbling effect it causes upon bullet impact. IMHO, better to shoot straight with a good HP bullet as your chances to hit are better and damage will most likely be greater also.

About the author: Mr. Sattler is the Law Enforcement Sales Manager and Archival Records Manager at Olympic Arms, Inc. in Olympia, WA and has been with the company since 1993. He is also a Reserve Deputy in a small Southwest Washington county Sheriff's Office.

there's a good review from ar15.com that covers various barrel twist rates....

 

[jmnielsen]

Is it possible to "over stabilize" a bullet?

 

[dhyde79]

Is it possible to "over stabilize" a bullet?

absolutely, though, I don't know how bad you'd have to go to hit that point....if you've got TOO much twist, you'll end up causing the bullets to yaw off to the right (as that's the direction the bullet rotates).

I know that's a valid point, as when I was considering building from scratch instead of buying a complete rifle and then customizing it after the fact, I'd called 4 or 5 places asking about getting a custom AR15 barrel made (18.5" 1:5.75 twist) they all told me that's WAY too much twist rate for anything lighter than about a 75gr round. I turned around and asked about a 22.5" barrel with 1:7 twist for a 7.62mm based AR and was told the same thing, way too much twist for anything but the heaviest hunting rounds.

 

[NismoFire]

Got my LPK today. Lower should ship Wed or Thurs to my FFL, which means it will probably be Mon or Tues before I get it.

 

[jmnielsen]

Got my LPK today. Lower should ship Wed or Thurs to my FFL, which means it will probably be Mon or Tues before I get it.

Awesome! I finally line things up with an FFL after he was being stubborn and then they sold out of the blemished lowers. Boooo.

Have you decided for sure what you will do for your upper yet? There seem to be seem decent uppers that only need
The CH and BCG

 

[NismoFire]

http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde.../upper-receivers/complete-upper-receiver.html


Complete upper for $99

 

[NismoFire]

PSA Premium LPK! **Don't judge my workbench. I've already determined it needs the holes filled!**

 

[TheFauxFox]

PSA Premium LPK! **Don't judge my workbench. I've already determined it needs the holes filled!**

Particle board will fix that.

I'm psyched to see what comes out of this!

 

[NismoFire]

Bump for new pic in the OP.

 

[dhyde79]

Looking good, as a side thought, fire a few rounds off with that grip, and if you'd rather have something more fitted, look up the UTG sniper grip on amazon.com, I paid $30 for it and it's very nice and comfortable to shoot, and it has a little cover for the bottom of the grip for storing whatever in there....

 

[TheFauxFox]

Looking good, as a side thought, fire a few rounds off with that grip, and if you'd rather have something more fitted, look up the UTG sniper grip on amazon.com, I paid $30 for it and it's very nice and comfortable to shoot, and it has a little cover for the bottom of the grip for storing whatever in there....

Or, if you feel you're in a hurry, there is a place in Nashville that either can or already has them.

 

[NismoFire]

I shouldered a rifle today with an Ergo grip on it and REALLY liked the way it filled my hand. I've also posted my stock on ARFCOM to trade for an OD one.

 

[jmnielsen]

I shouldered a rifle today with an Ergo grip on it and REALLY liked the way it filled my hand. I've also posted my stock on ARFCOM to trade for an OD one.

How big are your hands? Odd question I know but i was looking at ergo grips online but I have large hands, and don't want a grip like that if its too small for me. It would be less comfortable than a standard grip if my hand didn't fit it.

 

[NismoFire]

Hell, I dunno..all I know is that the one that came with the stock is too small/slimy. If I sweat even just a little bit, it feels like it would slide. That Ergo has finger "humps" that are ambidextrous and actually give you something to hold on to.

 

[NismoFire]

Upper has been ordered.


Thank you, PSA, for screwing up your finishes every other week. I appreciate your blemishes and will add more of my own when it arrives.

 

[RacerXXL]

Upper and a barrel or just an upper?

 

[NismoFire]

Stripped upper.