Is a 2" BL worth getting?

[RioDeColumbia]

So basically I am wondering if it is worth getting a 2" body lift or not? I do think X's with Body lifts look cool and all, but are they worth getting just for looks? I was also wondering if there are any disadvantages to having a BL?

 

[Cruecible]

I can't really speak to the 2nd gen crowd, but having a 2" BL on my 1st gen, I can contribute a little bit. It was already installed when I bought my Xterra, so I didn't have to worry about the installation or choice to get one. It's nice because it allowed me to fit 33's (I know you can go bigger on a 2nd gen) without rubbing or trimming back on anything, and it does sit a little higher which I like. However, if you off-road on a regular basis in some pretty tricky stuff, the higher center of gravity can hurt you and your truck.

If I had a choice to do it or not, I wouldn't have installed a BL. I'd prefer to have my center of gravity lower and not have to worry about the integrity of the BL pucks or the extra hassle of mechanical adjustments to accommodate the BL.

BUT, am I happy with it? Definitely.

 

[JeffPro4x]

There's no real advantage to a BL on 2nd gens unless you want to clear 35s. 33s fit with minor melting of the fender liner. I personally think they make 33s look to small.

 

[XterraPA]

On a II Gen, the 2" body lift with raise the fenders and help with larger tires, 33"s - 35"s. If you are an avid off-roader and tackle challenging terrain such as boulders, rocks and ditches, the BL can increase your lower body's ability to avoid obstacles. The 2" BL also gives a nice cosmetic improvement to your Xterra.

The 2" BL is a lengthy process, but it can be accomplished in 6-8 hours when following instructions properly and also being properly prepared with the parts and equipment needed.

 

[ryandavenport]

On a II Gen, the 2" body lift with raise the fenders and help with larger tires, 33"s - 35"s. If you are an avid off-roader and tackle challenging terrain such as boulders, rocks and ditches, the BL can increase your lower body's ability to avoid obstacles. The 2" BL also gives a nice cosmetic improvement to your Xterra.

The 2" BL is a lengthy process, but it can be accomplished in 6-8 hours when following instructions properly and also being properly prepared with the parts and equipment needed.

With the proper lift on stock wheels you can run 34s with a 3.5" suspension lift. That is what I did and it has worked out pretty well. I considered the move to 35s but my house and work garages both have too short of entries for me to run a body lift and 35s. Just another option for those wanting larger tires but no body lift.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RioDeColumbia]

With the proper lift on stock wheels you can run 34s with a 3.5" suspension lift. That is what I did and it has worked out pretty well. I considered the move to 35s but my house and work garages both have too short of entries for me to run a body lift and 35s. Just another option for those wanting larger tires but no body lift.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think it just may not be worth it then for me currently. If I ever decided to get 35s and such later I may get a BL, however it may just be pointless to get one right now.

 

[TJTJ]

Its primarily to fit larger tires, and, on a 2005+ X, that means 35's typically.

If NOT running 35's, on a 2nd Gen X, there's no real motivation to do it.

On the 2nd Gen X's, a 3" or a 2" BL are about the same work, so, it pays to do a 3" over a 2". On the 1st gens, the 3" take a lot longer than the 2" - and, many just do the 2" for that reason...and that it allows 33's, which are about as large as practical for most 1st gens w/o re-gearing, etc.

A quick note on the Center of Gravity issue:

The BODY is only a few hundred pounds, but, raising the FRAME with a suspension lift means lifting a FEW THOUSAND pounds....so, tire clearance with an SL raises the COG WAAAAY more than a BL would.

IE: For the same tire clearance, a rig with a BL has a LOWER COG than a rig with just an SL.

Simply removing the fenders for example would make room too, with no increase in COG at all....but is a bit "Mad Max" for most people's DD's, etc.

 

[Cruecible]

I said it can, not that it will. I understand the body is only a couple hundred pounds, and it's only a couple of inches going up. I personally am not one of those people who puts a ton of stuff on their roof, so I'm not necessarily afraid of a roll over anyways unless I'm doing something stupid or get myself into a sticky situation. But, if I did have a bunch of stuff up there on a regular basis, I sure would not want to have it 2 inches higher than it needs to be. Albeit however small or negligible a difference it may be.

 

[samuel313]

On the 2nd Gen X's, a 3" or a 2" BL are about the same work, so, it pays to do a 3" over a 2".

One major caveat to this statement is that most aftermarket vendors make armor for stock height or 2" BL only, so a 3" BL leaves you with poor fitting bumpers and sliders.

 

[TJTJ]

One major caveat to this statement is that most aftermarket vendors make armor for stock height or 2" BL only, so a 3" BL leaves you with poor fitting bumpers and sliders.

If by Poor Fit you mean an extra inch of space, yes....but in real life, you don't really notice it unless somewhat anal.

As the BL is for tire room, you'd just go by how much tire room you need vs the gap fit perspective if it matters to you.

Generally, if a guy is running 35"+ tires, etc...the rig is pretty hard core, and, as most rigs have too little gap, when flexing, the bumper can tweak the fenders, etc...adding that inch can save the body work, etc.

If its big tires on a mall crawler/just for show...yeah, the guy MIGHT be worried about an extra inch, you nevah know.

 

[XterraPA]

Just so all the facts on this thread are clear, a 3" BL on a 2nd Gen is much more involved and difficult than a 2" BL. The 3" BL requires much more work to be done to lengthen the steering system and move several extra brackets and parts.

 

[Fromfrontier2Xterra]

A frame lowering kit(what most call a body lift) will gain you absolutely nothing, and stress the body into cracking. Without the kit you can run 33's. Lower the frame 2 inches and run two inch bigger tires. Your ground clearance stays exactly the same, thus gaining you nothing. You now have all the negatives of bigger tires, heavier, more weight, loss of power etc without a single benefit. Lift it with suspension and you gain two more inches of ground clearance. But then, what do I know, I'm just a lowly first gen nobody. Cheers, JP

Frame lowering? It doesn't lower anything. The frame stays put. You lift the body. The frame DOES NOT move. When you then add bigger tires you gain that additional ground clearance gained by the bigger tires. Also you gain minimal clearance with suspension lift. The frame, axles etc. do not move with body lift. The only way to gain ground clearance is bigger tires.

Hence the reason for BL/Suspension lifts. More travel and the ability to stuff bigger tires.

Sent via my walkie talkie

 

[caseycamby]

Frame lowering? It doesn't lower anything. The frame stays put. You lift the body. The frame DOES NOT move. When you then add bigger tires you gain that additional ground clearance gained by the bigger tires. Also you gain minimal clearance with suspension lift. The frame, axles etc. do not move with body lift. The only way to gain ground clearance is bigger tires.

Hence the reason for BL/Suspension lifts. More travel and the ability to stuff bigger tires.

Sent via my walkie talkie

I was gonna say this. All of this. Ditto. X2. Hehe.

 

[caseycamby]

Genuinely interested.. Could you explain how adding body spacers pushes the frame down? I'm not trying to be smart or anything haha I'd just like to know

 

[drbandkgb]

I think gravity pulls down ;-)

 

[robcarync]

It seems you are comparing a 5" suspension lift to a 3" suspension lift and 2" body lift. That theoretical comparison, yes, the frame will be 2" lower. Is that the point you are trying to make?

Seems a 3" suspension lift only compared with a 3" suspension lift+2" body lift and all the same tires = same ground clearance at the frame.

 

[TJTJ]

LOL

Wait...the BL is to make room for tires...the same as removing the fenders.

I don't think anyone is saying removing fenders is going to give more suspension travel....why the confusion on a BL?

The BL DOES NOT LOWER THE FRAME.

If you leave the tires and suspension alone...and JUST do a BL, your frame to ground clearance WILL BE THE SAME, not lower.

So, the BL DOESN'T hurt articulation, OR help it...its an unrelated mod as far as frame clearance and suspension travel...it only makes more room for tires, just as removing the fenders does, etc.


If the suspension has the same up travel limit, a larger tire pokes up where a smaller tire would have hit, so, on full uptravel/stuffage, the tire might hit when it used to clear.

Removing the fenders so they are not there to hit, or, doing a BL to get the same result, simply means that the tire doesn't hit when stuffed as it would have.

If you use ONLY a suspension lift for TIRE clearance...when the lifted suspension is compressed, the added tire room goes where your lap does when you stand up...

...so, most kits add bumpstop extensions to prevent uptravel that would over compress the longer shocks/allow the tires to hit on compression.

Extending the bump stops limits uptravel articulation, so, if you don't NEED them, you would have MORE articulation.


The primary reason you CAN fit larger tires with a 5" SL than a 3" SL is that the tire DOES have to rise another 2" to hit what it used to...but that extra 2" is all you get...and then it hits....as there's nothing to stop it from compressing farther....unless you added the bumpstop extensions and reduced the uptravel limit.


So, unless there's confusion about what the SL is for (FRAME Clearance), and the BL (TIRE Clearance)...I don't think anyone is saying that you would ONLY do ONE because you have to choose.


Its like saying don't trim the wells because an SL gives better frame clearance.




So, for the record, the BL DOESN'T "Push the Frame Down"...the frame stays still relative to the ground. There is no additional weight on the frame, the body weighs the same.

The body being higher doesn't push down the frame, and, therefore, doesn't also push down the tires....the weight on the tires is the same before/after a BL. The rig doesn't weigh more after a BL, etc.



In contrast, the SL pushes the frame UP, which is where the added frame clearance comes from...its up higher off the ground.

If I COULD only have EITHER a BL or SL, the SL would add so much more ability its a no brainer...I'd do an SL.


The issue is that there's no real down side to ALSO making more room for a larger tire while not needing bumpstop extensions or having the larger tires hit on stuffage.

So, Portal Axles? Hell YEAH! But, they are expensive, hard to get, and, the fab work to use them is not as simple as the effort to do an SL or BL, etc.


So, my FIRST choice for tire room is fender removal, as there's no COG impact, the tires clear, and you're done...albeit this is a bit Mad Max for most X drivers....so the BL is the aesthetically less scary version of that.



Summary:

A BL doesn't lower the frame, it raises the body.

Its FOR TIRE CLEARANCE.

Raising the FENDERS 2" makes room for a 4" larger diameter tire (Not a 2" diameter increase, 4"), which can add 2" of FRAME clearance (Radius of larger tire's increase).

So, JUST adding a BL, and a 4" larger tire, raises the FRAME 2" farther up from the ground. (ALL of which is from the tires, none is from the BL by itself)

The SL, no matter the height, doesn't raise the diffs, at all.

THAT diff clearance, etc, is ALL from the larger tires TOO.


So, adding a BL really does nothing for you clearance-wise other than allow larger tires better....and the larger tires add the diff and frame clearance, etc.


The "Math" that assumes raising the body lowers the frame is mistaken...as the frame clearance is unchanged after a BL.

Therefore, a 2" increase in tire radius DOES result in 2" of additional FRAME AND DIFF Clearance...and you would NOT subtract the 2" you raised the body from that, as, the BL doesn't change those clearances.

 

[Cruecible]

My head really hurts from reading through this thread and trying to understand it. I'm trying to understand what Casper is trying to say, but I'm having a really difficult time relating it to anything other than confusing body lifts with lift blocks

 

[XterraPA]

I am having a hard time understanding how someone could believe that lifting the body of a vehicle can "force the frame down".

I don't need a measuring tape to tell you that the frame height does NOT change during a body lift. I have installed several body lifts including one on my own vehicle and the frame height has remained the same every time. The only thing that can change the frame height is taller coilover shocks, leaf springs, shackles, and larger tires.

 

[robcarync]

Why would you compare ground clearance on something "lifted" three inches to something "lifted" five inches? Apples to oranges. Use a two inch body lift to raise the vehicle two inches, to gain one inch extra clearance. (Two inch bigger tire equals one inch more clearance at the frame) Or Use a two inch taller suspension lift to gain three inches at the frame (2inch suspension plus one inch tire) But like I said, those who think body lifts are gaining them something usually will never see the math adding up. They just believe taller is better. Cheers, JP

Well...that is what I am trying to figure out what you are trying to say. It is obvious (to me at least) that a body lift is completely different from a suspension lift. The lifts are 2 distinct methods that have only 1 thing in common: the word lift. That is why comparing a 5" suspension lift to a truck with a 2" body lift and 3" suspension lift is not an apples to apples comparison...because no one is saying that a body "lift" and suspension "lift" are comparable.

I get what you are saying...a 2" body lift adds height to the body/cab while only allowing an extra inch of frame clearance with bigger tires...so when compared to the same "lift" done wholly on the suspension, you get more frame clearance...AKA the body lift pushes the frame down.

I guess it then gets into the cost and fabrication of doing a 5" suspension lift vs 3" suspension and 2" body lift to fit bigger tires. I have 1st gen so I'm not sure on 2nd gen suspenion lift options.

 

[TJTJ]

Well...that is what I am trying to figure out what you are trying to say. It is obvious (to me at least) that a body lift is completely different from a suspension lift. The lifts are 2 distinct methods that have only 1 thing in common: the word lift. That is why comparing a 5" suspension lift to a truck with a 2" body lift and 3" suspension lift is not an apples to apples comparison...because no one is saying that a body "lift" and suspension "lift" are comparable.

I get what you are saying...a 2" body lift adds height to the body/cab while only allowing an extra inch of frame clearance with bigger tires...so when compared to the same "lift" done wholly on the suspension, you get more frame clearance...AKA the body lift pushes the frame down.

I guess it then gets into the cost and fabrication of doing a 5" suspension lift vs 3" suspension and 2" body lift to fit bigger tires. I have 1st gen so I'm not sure on 2nd gen suspenion lift options.

NO

The body lift does NOT "push the frame down", in any way shape or form.

It has ZERO impact on frame height, period.


A "block lift" is a suspension lift, when the "blocks" are inserted between the axle and the leaf pack, when the leaf packs are on TOP OF the axle. IE: A "Block" LOWERS the rear of an X, because our leaves are UNDER the axle.



A BODY LIFT simply spaces the BODY up higher from the frame....the frame stays still, the body goes up...think of it as a taller body mount.

-----------

There is NO POINT in "Comparing a BL to an SL" if its to see "Which is the better lift".

The BL is not really "A Lift"...its just picking the fenders up higher, so a rising tire is less likely to whack them....its more like trimming to fit larger tires.


So, lets say to want a suspension lift, 3" for example, and you have a Gen II X.

You could fit 33's before the lift, and after the lift (With trimming/MM for either)...so, potential lift from adding 33's is the same with or without the lift....

...and, your 3" SL lifts the frame ~ 3".

The 33's lift the diffs, etc, by 1/2" or so over the 32's ground clearance.

You are a total of ~ 3.5" "taller" as far as ground clearance...over stock, and ~ 3" higher than if you had 33's on before the lift.


If you add a BL, to that 3" SL, nothing changes...its not needed as the tires already fit...and it doesn't lower anything in any way shape or fashion....your ground clearances are not LESS ANYWHERE.

This is why for < ~ 35's at least, a BL makes no sense on a Gen II. Cutting the fenders is probably better.


----

If its for a Gen I, then 32's fit stock (with trimming). If you leave the tire size alone and keep 32's...and add a 3" SL, your frame clearance is 3" more. Your diff clearance stays the same because the tires stayed the same.

If you add a 2" BL, your frame clearance says the same, because the BL doesn't change the frame clearance, and you do not lose any ground clearance anywhere.

As you now have room for 33's to rise w/o whacking...you can add 33's...and your diffs and frame go up about 1/2" higher than they were with 32's.

So, you have ~ 3.5" of total added ground clearance on 33's...all of which is from the SL and larger tire diameter - and the BL just made room for the tire to be larger, neither adding or subtracting any ground clearance in of itself.

So, cutting the fenders or a BL to fit 33's on a Gen I CAN make sense.


-------------


The point is NOT that you DO get more frame clearance with an SL vs BL...I can't imagine that being a question...the SL IS FOR FRAME CLEARANCE...its why you do one.

ALL the BL does is TIRE CLEARANCE. If you don't need more room for a rising tire, there's no reason to get the fender out of the way.


There is no disadvantage to the BL if you want tire clearance...it doesn't hurt frame clearance, or any other ground clearances.

The frame DOES NOT GO DOWN when you add a BL. It also doesn't go up....it stays put.


----------


If ALL you want is tire clearance, using an SL raises the COG a LOT more than a BL would for the same clearance...and, removing the fenders is better than either in that regard.


Is the increase in COG a big deal? Not that often in some terrain, and quite often in others. The increase in frame clearance can outweigh the COG hit in some areas, and not in others...it depends where and how you wheel.

For rocks, etc, a higher suspension lift is really needed to get over stuff...but larger tires really help to roll over obstacles as well, so, the higher you are, and the larger your tires, within reason, if you have the power to use it all, you can get through harder stuff.



If you want to say a 5" SL is better than a 3" SL with 2" BL....sure, that's a different issue, but its treating the BL as a lift not as a tire clearance measure.

Its ~ the same as saying that a 5" SL is better than a 3" SL with no fenders....OK, but who was arguing AGAINST that?



Does a pure suspension lift raise the frame more than something that doesn't raise the frame? Yes.

Does a pure suspension lift raise the frame more than larger tires? No, if the tire radius is 2" taller, the frame WILL be 2" higher.

Will a 2" increase in suspension height increase diff clearance by 2"? No, it won't change it at all.

Will a 2" increase in tire height (radius) increase the diff clearance by 2"? Yes, it picks up the diff AND the frame by 2".


Will, all else being equal, a 2" BL make room for a 2" increase in tire radius? Yes.

And so forth.









The ONLY nit I was picking is the statement that the BL LOWERED the frame...as, that's ridiculous...it simply doesn't lower the frame.







Think of a BL as an alternative to fender removal, instead of as "A Lift", and all of this will make more sense I think.

 

[robcarync]

TJTJ! Slow down buddy! Everything you are saying, I know...and I am agreeing with. I think you misunderstood what I was saying.

I am not literally saying the body lift pushes the frame down. Of course it doesn't.

I am trying to figure out how Casper explains that it effectively does that...and from what he has typed, it seems he is saying that he is comparing a 3" suspension lift with a 2" body lift, to a 5" suspension lift...and saying as a result, the frame is 2" lower for a 5" lift vs. a 5" lift because the 2" body lift didn't raise the frame.

AKA, it is better to do a larger suspension lift then a small suspension lift with a body lift. AKA...in an inch for inch comparison, a suspension lift has more advantages...at the FRAME level.

That is what I THINK Casper is trying to explain. Although, apparently that is not his point since he says no one gets it. It seems the crux of the logic is that the only benefit of a 2" body lift is to fit larger tires, and the only benefit of bigger tires is to increase frame clearance...so by extension, you are lifting the body 2" to lift the frame 1 inch.

My whole point is that a body lift and suspension lift are two distinct things and completely different purpose.

From Casper:

A frame lowering kit(what most call a body lift) will gain you absolutely nothing, and stress the body into cracking.

Without the kit you can run 33's.
Lower the frame 2 inches and run two inch bigger tires. Your ground clearance stays exactly the same, thus gaining you nothing.
You now have all the negatives of bigger tires, heavier, more weight, loss of power etc without a single benefit.

Lift it with suspension and you gain two more inches of ground clearance.

But then, what do I know, I'm just a lowly first gen nobody.

Cheers,
JP

 

[Cruecible]

A frame lowering kit(what most call a body lift) will gain you absolutely nothing, and stress the body into cracking.

Without the kit you can run 33's.
Lower the frame 2 inches and run two inch bigger tires. Your ground clearance stays exactly the same, thus gaining you nothing.
You now have all the negatives of bigger tires, heavier, more weight, loss of power etc without a single benefit.

Lift it with suspension and you gain two more inches of ground clearance.

But then, what do I know, I'm just a lowly first gen nobody.

Cheers,
JP

It's all about pushing the wheels down, and as little as possible with them. Though most think of it as "lift". Think of a portal axle, and why they are the best option.

Taller suspension push the wheels down without pushing much else with it (On an IFS there can be some components that drop, but with a quality kit, not much)

Body lifts push the frame down, which pushes the suspension down, which in turn push the wheels down. But at the cost of bringing the frame and everything attached to it down.

Honestly if your with a ton of rigs on a run, take two like I described in my last post and measure. You will see it plain as day.

Hope that explains it better.

Cheers,
JP

Why would you compare ground clearance on something "lifted" three inches to something "lifted" five inches? Apples to oranges. Use a two inch body lift to raise the vehicle two inches, to gain one inch extra clearance. (Two inch bigger tire equals one inch more clearance at the frame) Or Use a two inch taller suspension lift to gain three inches at the frame (2inch suspension plus one inch tire) But like I said, those who think body lifts are gaining them something usually will never see the math adding up. They just believe taller is better. Cheers, JP

You can justify it anyway you like.

Those who believe in them always will.

Measure two trucks built the two different ways and you might get what I'm trying to say. Numbers speak for themselves.

I get it, it's a cheap way to run bigger tires. If that's your thing then by all means more power to you. I'm just making sure to point out that a body lift does nothing to help and has quite a few negative side affects.

Cheers,
JP

I was warned by Ryan not to try and explain this, that no one would get it. He was correct.

I concede. Body lifts are perfect for use.

I'm going wheelin now, see y'all in a week.

Cheers,
JP

After further review: I'm going with the conclusion that Casper is trolling us. If not, then, well, hopefully if/when people read this thread in the future, they won't be confused as to what has transpired.

 

[caseycamby]

After further review: I'm going with the conclusion that Casper is trolling us. If not, then, well, hopefully if/when people read this thread in the future, they won't be confused as to what has transpired.

That's the most logical explanation I've heard haha

 

[TJTJ]

LOL

That might be the best explanation...as the frame lowering thing was absurd, and him pulling some legs WOULD explain it best.

That some AGREED is scary...but, WTH....not everyone thinks things through.


His sarcastic conclusion that

I was warned by Ryan not to try and explain this, that no one would get it. He was correct.

I concede. Body lifts are perfect for use.

I'm going wheelin now, see y'all in a week.

Cheers,
JP


Implies that, on the surface at least...he did believe people should get 5" SL and not 3" SL + 2" BL....which is a separate and not really disputed point....sure, a 5" SL is better...if you can do one.


On the other hand, the part that was disputed was the absurd "math" that required a BL to somehow make the frame closer to the ground.

If he meant to explain it better, and didn't mean to really say that, I'd believe that too.



But, as it stands, what WAS said, was whacka doodle.

 

[Grandpa X]

This is a funny thread...

So a guy suspension lifts his rig 3 inches....

Another guy body lifts his rig 3 inches....

One frame is lower than the other... 3 inches... sounds like a frame lowering kit to me...

It is a matter of opinion.. glass half empty/half full...

Casper and I look at it in another direction. SASing a rig an owner picks the lift size. No CV boots to bust from angle, ball joints.. bla bla bla. So, when we put an axle under a body lifted rig.. we look at it as the steering box is lower.. the frame is lower.

We are building from the body down... so to speak.

So YES it does lower the frame... just a matter of opinion.

 

[ryandavenport]

This is a funny thread...

So a guy suspention lifts his rig 3 inches....

Another guy body lifts his rig 3 inches....

One frame is lower than the other... 3 inches... sounds like a frame lowering kit to me...

But if you flip the pucks upside down, does it raise it? [emoji3]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[caseycamby]

So a guy suspention lifts his rig 3 inches....

Another guy body lifts his rig 3 inches....

One frame is lower than the other... 3 inches... sounds like a frame lowering kit to me...

I don't think anybody would argue that. That's like saying I added stickers to my car when I could've added a turbo. So by adding stickers I lowered my HP.

I THINK what he was trying to say is simply by adding a BL, you're frame will become lower... I think. I really don't know...

 

[TJTJ]

So if I don't buy a lift, I lowered my rig by the amount I didn't lift it?




As explained ad nauseum...we all agree that a suspension lift is for frame clearance, so, if you want more frame clearance, you do an SL.

NO ONE thinks you get ANY additional frame clearance from a BL.


The confusion is some saying that you are LOWERING your frame "BECUASE THE BL PUSHES THE FRAME DOWN"...which, it is NOT.

IE: You don't LOSE frame clearance from doing a BL.


Example - You have a 5" SL....you have X frame clearance.

You add a 2" BL to that, and you STILL have X frame clearance.


Its not (NOT) pushing the frame down, as claimed.


Its also not pushing it up, or changing where the frame is.


Summary:

No one thinks a BL adds frame clearance.

Everyone agrees an SL adds frame clearance.


SOME people apparently think a BL pushes the frame down.

If they are simply saying that IF someone did an SL, it would be better than a BL as far as frame clearance, IE: The frame is lower than it WOULD HAVE BEEN...fine, that's 100% true.


If they insist the frame is pushed down though, that's 100% wrong.


Its an odd argument then though, as its like saying if you do a 12" SL it lowers the frame by 12"....because its 12" lower than a 24" SL.

 

[Grandpa X]

It lowers the frame... why do the sliders have to be raised after a body lift? Hmm... is the frame lower? It is all a "frame of mind".... LOL

As said... Josh and I take all the suspension off the truck.... then we add a new "suspension lift" with whatever amount of height a person desires.

The frame is lower (on a "body spacer" mod) being we normally try to fit the lift to the desired tire size. I took a bunch of 3 inch lowering spacers off my SaSed rig being the frame was so low with the given tire size that the "lowered" frame would get in the way of my steering linkage etc.

I know it makes ones head ache while trying to gain internet knowledge in the office cubical...

Now... how do body spacers help! It is a way to raise the wheel wells (and CG) in order to stuff bigger tires under a ifs rig. You can only get so much angle out of a CV shaft until it gets to it's limits or starts blowing boots.

Sawing out the wheel wells would "in theory" be a better way to achieve this goal and wouldn't raise the CG. But who want to take a saws-all to their new rig.. not many!

There is a purpose to a body lift... I would more likely call it a wheel well lift if someone demands "Lift" be attached to the spacers. Does a body lift allow bigger tires... YES!

 

[Fromfrontier2Xterra]

I'm sorry but this thread is making my head hurt. Does a body lift separate a body from frame the amount of the puck, YES.

Does the frame lower in any way...NO. With this "logic" a certain BL would push the frame on the ground. Come on people.

Can this please be cleaned up before someone gets utterly confused?

Sent via my walkie talkie

 

[ryandavenport]

I'm sorry but this thread is making my head hurt. Does a body lift separate a body from frame the amount of the puck, YES.

Does the frame lower in any way...NO. With this "logic" a certain BL would push the frame on the ground. Come on people.

Can this please be cleaned up before someone gets utterly confused?

Sent via my walkie talkie

I'm with you. It seems like a simple concept. Body lift lifts the body off of the frame. Changing point of reference to the body lowers the frame in respect to the body, but not the ground. If you fly over Mt. Everest in an airplane, should you suddenly measure the height of Mt. Everest as a decrease in altitude from the airplane, or do you still say that it's 29000 ft tall.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[01XterraPhilly]

I can't really speak to the 2nd gen crowd, but having a 2" BL on my 1st gen, I can contribute a little bit. It was already installed when I bought my Xterra, so I didn't have to worry about the installation or choice to get one. It's nice because it allowed me to fit 33's (I know you can go bigger on a 2nd gen) without rubbing or trimming back on anything, and it does sit a little higher which I like. However, if you off-road on a regular basis in some pretty tricky stuff, the higher center of gravity can hurt you and your truck.

If I had a choice to do it or not, I wouldn't have installed a BL. I'd prefer to have my center of gravity lower and not have to worry about the integrity of the BL pucks or the extra hassle of mechanical adjustments to accommodate the BL.

BUT, am I happy with it? Definitely.

I know this thread is mostly about the 2nd Gen Xs but if someone is reading this and doesnt realize it here is some input on the first gens. On a 2" BL for the FIRST Gens the only thing you have to worry about when installing is an extended radiator hose and unclipping tubes and wires and what not. The 3" BL requires that plus a steering linkage that extends the steering components. The 3" BL is not common at all for either generations. And a 2" BL for the first gens will allow you to fit 33s without cutting metal or plastic. But again this tid bit is just for the guys and gals who are reading this and may think its about a first gen..

 

[01XterraPhilly]

wow just actually read through most of this thread and my head hurts.

 

[Muadeeb]

Ask I got out of it was a BL moved the earth further away from you.

 

[drbandkgb]

No one is trolling here..


I understand what they are saying. With only 5" of Lift - 3" SL and 2" of BL yes the frame has not been raised as high as it could be with a full 5" of SL.
so one could say the frame is lower vs the full 5" of SL.

Wording..

I think hearing it said as "pushing" the frame down is what people do not understand.

 

[TJTJ]

No one is trolling here..


I understand what they are saying. With only 5" of Lift - 3" SL and 2" of BL yes the frame has not been raised as high as it could be with a full 5" of SL.
so one could say the frame is lower vs the full 5" of SL.

Wording..

I think hearing it said as "pushing" the frame down is what people do not understand.

Yeah...its just that saying "Pushing the frame down" = "Frame Lowering Kit" = "Doing a 5" SL pushes the frame down because you didn't do a 10" SL...and are 5" lower than if you'd done a 10" SL.

Its nonsensical.

That means any lift lowers your frame because you didn't raise it MORE.


A BL is essentially trimming to fit tires.

If I do a 3" SL...I raised the frame 3". Its not HIGHER than that if I DON'T do a BL or remove my fenders.

IE: NOT doing a BL doesn't lower anything....anymore than NOT doing 5" lowers anything.


The wording either was saying something that (Hopefully) didn't need to be said...or was so poorly phrased that no one knew it was supposed to mean something unrelated.



If someone posted they wanted a lowering kit...would anyone recommend installing a BL?


How about telling them to lower it 5" by NOT installing a 5" SL?


And so forth.



I asked if what they meant was simply that a 5" SL gives more frame clearance than a 3" SL + 2" BL....and there was no answer other than a sarcastic fine, BL's are great...sort of retort.....

...instead of clarifying the statement that so many were bewildered by.


Which left the statements that a BL was a frame lowering kit, etc....standing as their opinion.



And that was essentially all any one thought was bizarre.

The 5" SL, vs 3" SL frame clearance plus 2" BL's added tire room frame clearance was not really addressed properly.


For the record...that was the 3" SL's add 3" of frame clearance. A 5" SL adds 5" of frame clearance. A 2" BL adds Zero Frame Clearance.

If the 2" BL made room for a 2" taller (Radius tire) then the TIRE would add 2" of lift to the entire rig, diffs and all.

The SL's added no diff clearance.


For a gen I for example, most get 33's with a 2" BL, over the 32's they would have gotten.

So, really, the tire is only adding 1/2", not 2", and, therefore, the 5" SL beats the 3+2 combo by an inch and a half in frame clearance....and that's using 32's on the 5" SL to boot.




So, if 5" SL were a bit less involved, etc...they definitely would result in more frame clearance, for more 1st gen people than they do now.


For the 2nd Gen's, its even more in favor of a 5" SL for maximum frame clearance...as both could fit 33's for example.


So FRAME CLEARANCE is not the debate.


Saying a BL LOWERS (anything) was about the only real issue.

 

[TJTJ]

This is a funny thread...

So a guy suspension lifts his rig 3 inches....

Another guy body lifts his rig 3 inches....

One frame is lower than the other... 3 inches... sounds like a frame lowering kit to me...

It is a matter of opinion.. glass half empty/half full...

Casper and I look at it in another direction. SASing a rig an owner picks the lift size. No CV boots to bust from angle, ball joints.. bla bla bla. So, when we put an axle under a body lifted rig.. we look at it as the steering box is lower.. the frame is lower.

We are building from the body down... so to speak.

So YES it does lower the frame... just a matter of opinion.

LOL

I suppose you can have an opinion that NOT doing something counts...



So, your opinions, as understood, are that:

1) If you do a 5" SL you'll have more frame clearance than if you did a 3" SL + 2" BL

I think that's dead on accurate.


2) You think that if you added a 2" BL to the above 5" SL rig, the frame would be 2" closer to the ground (Lowered by the amount of the BL)...because BL's lower the frame.

Would you Clarify, or, Agree?


3) You think a guy who does a 3" SL will LOOSE ground clearance if he adds a 2" BL...because it will lower his frame by that much?

Clarify, or, Agree?


4) You think a BL ONLY "lowers the frame" because "Lowering the Frame" means, to you, simply "Not Raising the Frame"?

Clarify, or, Agree?


5) You believe that adding a 5" SL lowers the frame by 5", because its 5" lower than if you'd done a 10" SL?

Clarify, or, Agree?



6) You believe a SAS'd rig is better off road in rocks than an IFS Rig?

Yeah, I'm in 100% agreement again.

 

[Grandpa X]

It is all about the frame of mind when building a suspension from scratch.. the datum line is the top of the wheel-well compared to the size of tire.. compared to the up-travel of the axle/tire. All these things need to stuff together so the tire clears the top of the well and the axle/steering does not interfere with the frame.. etc. Most of the time when doing this to achieve the lowest center of gravity. The "frame" or wheel-well get in the way thus limiting the up-travel. A body lift gets in the way if trying to stuff the axle as far up as possible being the frame is "lower" than normal....

Does the frame get lower on an IFS setup... well yes when compared to a full suspension lift if we are measuring from the top of the wheel well to the up-travel limit of the suspension. The top of the well is the datum line when stuffing in bigger tires.

This whole "frame" of mind is different than most folks out there trying to measure their manhood saying... I have 12 inches of lift.

You normally hear a builder talk tire size, frame height, and CG. When someone says "How much lift" to a builder... They instantly get classified to "bolt-on rookie class".

 

[TJTJ]

It is all about the frame of mind when building a suspension from scratch.. the datum line is the top of the wheel-well compared to the size of tire.. compared to the up-travel of the axle/tire. All these things need to stuff together so the tire clears the top of the well and the axle/steering does not interfere with the frame.. etc. Most of the time when doing this to achieve the lowest center of gravity. The "frame" or wheel-well get in the way thus limiting the up-travel. A body lift gets in the way if trying to stuff the axle as far up as possible being the frame is "lower" than normal....

Does the frame get lower on an IFS setup... well yes when compared to a full suspension lift if we are measuring from the top of the wheel well to the up-travel limit of the suspension. The top of the well is the datum line when stuffing in bigger tires.

This whole "frame" of mind is different than most folks out there trying to measure their manhood saying... I have 12 inches of lift.

You normally hear a builder talk tire size, frame height, and CG. When someone says "How much lift" to a builder... They instantly get classified to "bolt-on rookie class".

LOL

Thank you...I thought you were off the deep end on the "lowering of the frame thing"....but you do only mean relatively, not that the frame gets closer to the ground if you add a BL.

You're right about lift kits...bolt on stuff IS typically discussed in terms of "how many inches of lift"....and I hate when people count BLs as part of their "lift". I do get it when all they care about is how tall at the mall they are though.




I do think a BL is more of a wheel well raiser than a frame lowerer though. If I'm working on suspension, I'm usually baselined from the frame...as if there's no fenders, there's no way for them to be part of the articulation equation....so its typically more about trying to find a shock that can get short enough to allow full uptravel and extend enough to allow full down travel, while still being stable off camber, etc.....and, of course, the tires can still hit stuff other than fenders, like the steering, frame rails, etc, but, fenders are about all a BL is typically affecting anyway.

If the top of the wheel well is your datum line when stuffing bigger tires, then, that assumes you still have wells, and, if the fenders are in the way, but, the tires would be able to fit if the fenders are out of the way...its hard to imagine removing the fenders would not help?


When we do a buggy, the fenders are among the first parts to come off for example.

If its from scratch...the wheels are typically not enclosed.