Book of the AR-15

Cyclemut

Wheeling
Founding Member
Location
Morrison, CO
Just picked mine up. I'm fairly certain that by Sunday, half the pages will be stuck together.

Because I've drooled all over them. What?

I'm going to order an 80% lower after my wife is able to work again (mid January) and I can use the mill at work to finish it off. Then it's on like Donkey Kong!

The hardest decision will be what color to anodize it. Perhaps a black chrome. I love that stuff.

And I joined AR15 dot com. So much reading to do!
 

RacerXXL

First Fill-Up (of many)
Founding Member
Location
North Alabama
Just picked mine up. I'm fairly certain that by Sunday, half the pages will be stuck together.

Because I've drooled all over them. What?

I'm going to order an 80% lower after my wife is able to work again (mid January) and I can use the mill at work to finish it off. Then it's on like Donkey Kong!

The hardest decision will be what color to anodize it. Perhaps a black chrome. I love that stuff.

And I joined AR15 dot com. So much reading to do!

You're screwed. Simply viewing two or three pages on that site will infect you with a terminal case of BRD (Black Rifle Disease). :excitement: I can see it now.....Hmmmmm on one hand I could buy an ACOG..or on the other hand buy parts to finish SAS? Buy an ACOG..or buy parts to finish SAS? In this hand an ACOG.....and in this hand...what did I have in this hand again? Nothing in this hand cause I'm buying an ACOG! :p

Welcome to the dark side...remember we have cookies. :drunk:
 

J Everett

Suspension Lift
Founding Member
Location
Houma, LA
Yeah, I've deliberately avoided that site like the plague. I've got more than enough money tied up in my AR already, and I'm already considering a second upper. :)
 

Cyclemut

Wheeling
Founding Member
Location
Morrison, CO
Well, since I'm volunteering with goneMOAB, the SAS is a must. Hell, I practically have guys throwing me parts to get it done!

The AR on the other hand, I'm drooling over. I have to buy the jig and the 80% paperweight first, but Jeebus, the rest of the stuff... did I mention my bug is for sale? :D

I love that feeling of starting something new. It's like a relationship and I'm still in the foreplay stages of things. But I've seen her naked. I just want to stop watching through the window and see her naked in person. :couple_inlove: HA!

And there won't be any restraining orders this time. :black_eyed:
 

Cyclemut

Wheeling
Founding Member
Location
Morrison, CO
I'm not sure. I'd like to build two, one for urban defense (shorter barrel, collapsible stock, etc.) and one for long distance accuracy (gopher shoots, target at range, etc.). I could go either way for either one, though I would think the .223 would be better for the longer range (haven't done much research on that yet).

But I'll probably build the urban defense unit first. Which caliber would be better suited for either (considering that I haven't done the research that part yet)?
 

J Everett

Suspension Lift
Founding Member
Location
Houma, LA
The .223/5.56 is a good all rounder. .223 is cheap to shoot (comparatively) and has pretty good ballistics, and then stepping up to the 5.56 for your occasional long rang shooting will net you a lot more down range energy and a little less drop, but they can be shot from the same upper, provided that upper is made specifically for the 5.56 cartridge (I've never seen an AR that was .223 only). Also, the minute differences in the cartridge mean the 5.56 is a little more accurate than the .223 when shot from a rifle that's chambered for 5.56. But again, .223 is a lot cheaper to shoot.

I'm looking at getting a 6.8mm Remington SPC upper for some really long range shooting (600 meter+) because the 6.8 will allow me to use the same lower. A .308/7.62 upper would require an AR-10 lower because the longer cartridge demands a longer (front to back) magazine well. The 6.8 is nice trade off between the .308 ballistics and the need to not have to buy another lower. This is the upper I'm thinking of getting:
http://www.stagarms.com/product_info.php?cPath=14_24&products_id=318

This is, to me, the beauty of the AR platform. One lower (not having to deal with shipping more parts to FFL holders) and multiple uppers that retain the sights/optics with the barrel in one unit. No need to worry about re-sighting after changing out a barrel like other modular systems.
 
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Cyclemut

Wheeling
Founding Member
Location
Morrison, CO
Dude! I hadn't even considered the 6.8. That's an awesome suggestion.

So I'd like to have the .223 for the cheapness of it, the NATO round would then be a bonus at that point (I like the energy of it) but the 6.8 would be a sweet round down range. I'll definitely be checking into that as an upper too. I do love the AR platform for its ability to take multiple uppers.
 

RacerXXL

First Fill-Up (of many)
Founding Member
Location
North Alabama
I'm not sure. I'd like to build two, one for urban defense (shorter barrel, collapsible stock, etc.) and one for long distance accuracy (gopher shoots, target at range, etc.). I could go either way for either one, though I would think the .223 would be better for the longer range (haven't done much research on that yet).

But I'll probably build the urban defense unit first. Which caliber would be better suited for either (considering that I haven't done the research that part yet)?

I would build using a barrel chambered for 5.56 first. A barrel chambered for 5.556 will safely fire .223, where a barrel chambered for .223 will not always safely fire 5.56. The difference in the shape of the cartridge is so subtle and small that I know of know one who can visually tell the difference. It is however large enough that in certain .223 chambered barrels that it can cause issues. They are basically the same cartridge.

223vs556nato.jpg


Me personally I think that for the long range type of shooting you've mentioned (gophers, Pdogs, targets) that under 500 yards that .223/5.56 is a very good choice. The only changes you would really need to make is what type of bullet/ammo you are using for each application and the corresponding changes to the optics on the rifles zero and knowing the dope (ballistics) for each round in your rifle. For a defense round I would want something in the 75 to 77 grain range in an OTM, open tip match..hollow point, bullet. For gophers and prairie dogs I would be looking for a ballistic tip round somewhere around 55 grains. Precision shooting would more then likely be you SD round as the ballistic coefficient for 75 to 77 grain OTM rounds tends to be excellent making them very good long range rounds.
 
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Cyclemut

Wheeling
Founding Member
Location
Morrison, CO
I'd probably look at a medium length barrel, at about a 1:7 twist (unless it's too money, then a 1:8 will do and keep it in the 75grain area max), in a 5.56 NATO for the UD unit and less than 500 yards.

But I'm intrigued by the 6.8mm. If I could reach out there, really out there, I'd be heaven. Especially with a drop in upper.

My wife is going to hate me. But she spends money too. And this is really for her safety! ;)
 

Cyclemut

Wheeling
Founding Member
Location
Morrison, CO
So, is AR15 dot com searchable? It doesn't seem to matter which word I put into their little search deal, I have to enter the image verification code and nothing comes up. I know there's stuff on there that I'm searching for and it appears to be the largest forum for this weapon. I just can't believe that I'm not allowed to search stuff.

Or am I doing something wrong?
 

RacerXXL

First Fill-Up (of many)
Founding Member
Location
North Alabama
Did you pay for a membership or just sign up? What are you searching for? Search can be wonky on Arfcom unless you are used to it or have a paying membership. What were you looking for?
 

RacerXXL

First Fill-Up (of many)
Founding Member
Location
North Alabama
Another way around it Allen is to use Google to search the site. Say you were looking for info on a piston kit. You would Google search Site:ar15.com Piston Kit.
 

Cyclemut

Wheeling
Founding Member
Location
Morrison, CO
Yeah, I haven't paid for a membership yet, I need to do that.

I was looking for the guys offering the 80% lower. Trying to see if there's anything I need to look out for or if there's a particular material that was considered better, both for the weapon and for milling. Then I was trying to read up a bit on the 3 burst parts, out of curiosity (I've always been fascinated with how that worked), after reading about it in the content section. Plus I was wondering what the pros and cons were to converting the gas system are (and what it entails). Tons of questions, but I suppose that I'll have to use the google search and get a membership as well.

I feel like a kid in a candy store. Can't wait to get the 80% lower in my hands with a set of prints. I may get the jigs too, since it will be my first one.
 

RacerXXL

First Fill-Up (of many)
Founding Member
Location
North Alabama
Yeah, I haven't paid for a membership yet, I need to do that.

I was looking for the guys offering the 80% lower. Trying to see if there's anything I need to look out for or if there's a particular material that was considered better, both for the weapon and for milling. Then I was trying to read up a bit on the 3 burst parts, out of curiosity (I've always been fascinated with how that worked), after reading about it in the content section. Plus I was wondering what the pros and cons were to converting the gas system are (and what it entails). Tons of questions, but I suppose that I'll have to use the google search and get a membership as well.

I feel like a kid in a candy store. Can't wait to get the 80% lower in my hands with a set of prints. I may get the jigs too, since it will be my first one.


Search function actually works correctly with a membership....but it only goes back 30 days. The archive search can be hit or miss. After a quick search for the word lower, search needs to be 3 letters or more, in the AR15 section I came up with a few guys recommending https://www.tacticalmachining.com/.

Select fire parts stuff I really never look at but a search for burst returned this thread...http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_17/356613_3_round_burst.html&light=burst explaining the mechanics of the system. Also look at http://www.quarterbore.com/ for a lot of good info on select fire stuff like RDIAS (Registered Drop in Auto Sear) and Lightning Link.

Converting the gas system? Converting it to piston? Or from one length to another?
 

Lucky_lefty

Bought an X
Founding Member
Location
IL
is there a reason you want the 80% lowers? I build ar's and I always get lowers amd lower parts kits from a few sites. some spots have lowers for 69 bucks with free shipping. and then you dont have to mill anything and you can focus on building a superior upper.
 

RacerXXL

First Fill-Up (of many)
Founding Member
Location
North Alabama
is there a reason you want the 80% lowers? I build ar's and I always get lowers amd lower parts kits from a few sites. some spots have lowers for 69 bucks with free shipping. and then you dont have to mill anything and you can focus on building a superior upper.

80% lower = something about the government?

IIRC it was mostly due to the absurd/obscene transfer prices being asked by Cyclemut's local FFL's.
 

civicjoe

lone wolf mod
Founding Member
Location
Nevada
So what's this going to run after its finished vs. buying one.


Shouted to my guide while wrestling the kraken!
 

RacerXXL

First Fill-Up (of many)
Founding Member
Location
North Alabama
So what's this going to run after its finished vs. buying one.


Shouted to my guide while wrestling the kraken!

I think that is not so much of an issue vs the principle of refusing to be bent over and extorted by the local FFl on the transfer fee.
 

Cyclemut

Wheeling
Founding Member
Location
Morrison, CO
Correct on all accounts. The FFL transfer fees are just stupid around here.

I like the idea of an unfinished lower that I can do myself, with no numbers or paperwork either. Not as much of a conspiracy nut as I am a guy that likes to do some things myself. After I mill out one or two then I'll have the jigs and whatnot to do with what I want. I also want to do some different finishes, like the black chrome anodizing or even a damascus modling technique (probably for the carbine unit) that I'd like to try.

But for all of that, I'd have to also either strip the uppers or find unfinished uppers to get what I wanted.

I've learned so much from the pros on here alone that it only makes me want to get them sooner. And after joining the the EBR forum (having not posted on single thing yet!) I'm even more intrigued.

Hell, I haven't fired a round in about 3 months now. I'm going through withdrawals!
 

NismoFire

Titan Swapped / SAS'd
Founding Member
Location
Smyrna, TN
Man, all this talk makes me want to BUILD one instead of BUY one..surely to gobble, between me and my dad we could piece one together.
 

Cyclemut

Wheeling
Founding Member
Location
Morrison, CO
Nismo,check this out.

http://cncguns.com/

He shows how to finish an 80% lower with only a drill press. I have access to large mill, so that's what I'll be using. The spec sheets he provides will be my guide, they're pretty detailed (I'll be redoing them in Solidworks to make them easier to translate for myself though). Finishing your own isn't that hard. He has jigs that you can get, tool lists and even sells the end mill bit so that you can do that too. Imagine buying half a dozen lowers and finishing them all for yourself. Then just making each individual AR that you want over time. That's my plan.

I want a long distance runner, a carbine, a varmint unit, an all out tactical unit, etc. I want enough that a room dedicated to them isn't a wish, it's a necessity! :D

Yeah, I have too much time on my hands lately. And I had to take a percocet because I overdid it again today. You'd think I'd learn to stay off the webz when I'm like this, I just never learn!
 

NismoFire

Titan Swapped / SAS'd
Founding Member
Location
Smyrna, TN
So I'm getting back like 3k from the IRS...AR, tires, annnnnd a little bling for my girl's left ring finger....but you didn't hear that last part.


Anyway, I wanna build it, or at least buy the pieces and assemble it myself. So where do I need to start?
 

dhyde79

Titan Swapped / SAS'd
Founding Member
Location
Amarillo, TX
start with something chambered .308. I liked 5.56mm but, in the same turn, if you want medium/long range hunting capability .308 will definitely win there, if you want urban defense, .308 win/7.62mm will pretty well punch holes through most any vehicle and assuredly stop any assailant that you put in the crosshairs. two of the biggest mistakes I ever made were selling my AR10 and my SR-25. both were well built and very accurate at most any range I cared to shoot things at. I used the SR25 for elk hunting in the mtns, and could one shot one kill any I aimed at within range. 5.56 is great for shooting small game, but, I don't think I'd ever consider it for anything larger than a coyote.
 
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dhyde79

Titan Swapped / SAS'd
Founding Member
Location
Amarillo, TX
ok, pretend I don't know what PSC is and refresh my memory lol

home protection I still go back to the .308, I'm not really that fond of 5.56/.223 after 8 years in the army and the chance to see what multiple rounds will do to a very large range of targets, .308 and .338 Lapua Mag are my two favorites. The 5.56 was picked up because it's a "wound" round, not a "kill" round, remember, the military philosophy is, if you can wound someone, you take out twice as many people at minimum, because now someone has to tend the wounded soldier instead of shooting at you. With home/personal defense, I'm not sure what your philosophy is, but mine is one shot no more intruder.
 

NismoFire

Titan Swapped / SAS'd
Founding Member
Location
Smyrna, TN
Private Security Contractor.

My only experience with ARs is from being in the Reserves. I liked my issued M4, but I'd love to make it MINE, ya know?



My philosophy is this- if you're in my house, you better be friends with an undertaker or the coroner, cause he's the only way you're getting out. Unfortunately, I live in an apartment, but our short-term (less than 2 years) plan is to be in a house.
 

dhyde79

Titan Swapped / SAS'd
Founding Member
Location
Amarillo, TX
gotcha, I dunno man....the AR15 and AR10 feel almost identical in my hands, there's a bit more recoil on the 10 than the 15, however, that's easily remedied with a stronger buffer spring. If you're thinking PSC/PMC, I'd honestly be thinking more punch = more better. All of my deployments resulted in me being happiest when I had a .50BMG or 7.62mm rifle in hand. If I had an M4, it was with an M203 attached. After watching people be hit with 5.56 NATO and pick up an AK and return fire afterward, I never saw someone get tagged with a 7.62mm from an M24 and try to move at all. The big advantage to 5.56mm is that the ammo load out is lighter, **BUT** in my mind, it was always worth it. (though, I suppose it depends on what your combat load out is. for the MG guys, yeah, it was a significant difference in weight. for me, it wouldn't have mattered at all) if customization is your big thing, anything that fits the AR15 typically fits an AR10 as well, so, you can customize just as heavily.

check out http://308ar.com/ as well, maybe get some ideas there too, I mean honestly, it's like the debate of frontier vs titan. if you never need to make it work hard, fronty is fine, but if you need to pull a big load, there's no replacement for displacement. (the same applies to bullets, check out penetration tests, not even getting into the way .223/5.56mm tumbles so it's more likely to ricochet)

oh, and for **HOME** defense, if you pull out an AR, you're trying to kill neighbors, home defense = 12ga with buckshot, preferrably a pump. home defense moments are much higher stress than anything else, and the lack of required pinpoint accuracy absolutely makes the shotgun much more useful.
 

NismoFire

Titan Swapped / SAS'd
Founding Member
Location
Smyrna, TN
Oh there's already a 12ga by the bed...no worries there. Definitely not in the business of killin the neighbors.

Every time I've shot 5.56 NATO, I've just not felt like it was enough, so .308 is sounding like a REALLY big option. Any particular manufacturers to say away from? I've heard great things about Daniel Defense, STAG, and Larue, but I don't think DD has .308 parts..I'm on my phone currently so I can't look for myself.


I'm trying to convince my better half to let me go for a few months (read: year contract) with PMC as a medic, make us enough money so we can build a house. That's still in the works, though, as she doesn't even want me doing CLS here for the sheriff's department. Still working her over right now lol.
 

dhyde79

Titan Swapped / SAS'd
Founding Member
Location
Amarillo, TX
Oh there's already a 12ga by the bed...no worries there. Definitely not in the business of killin the neighbors.

good ;) I keep the shotty there and the 9mm in the headboard, but, more importantly, I keep the hand forged folded steel katana beside the bed, cause the 9 goes in the pants, the wife can man the shotty, and if I can drop someone silently with the blade, I'm sure as hell doing it and not waking the baby up.... (yes, I did just say I'd rather use a blade and risk getting hurt than wake up the baby in the middle of the night)

Any particular manufacturers to say away from? I've heard great things about Daniel Defense, STAG, and Larue, but I don't think DD has .308 parts..I'm on my phone currently so I can't look for myself.

honestly, the only parts I didn't have that were stock were from custom milling. I absolutely loved my stoner SR25 and the armalite AR-10 was a very lovely work of art.

I'm trying to convince my better half to let me go for a few months (read: year contract) with PMC as a medic, make us enough money so we can build a house. That's still in the works, though, as she doesn't even want me doing CLS here for the sheriff's department. Still working her over right now lol.

oof, good luck on that one man, I dunno, after enough combat zones the last thing I want is to sign up to go to one with a non-government supply system....on the other hand, the PMC's that I dealt with in Kuwait were pretty decent, and had MUCH better ROE than the US Army ;) Rules of Engagement were "if you've been given clearance to use force, it's at your discretion, just be ready to justify it"

just remember, even medics had better be able to shoot ;)
 

NismoFire

Titan Swapped / SAS'd
Founding Member
Location
Smyrna, TN
I can shoot...no worries there.

I got to looking at prices for .308 components, and they're a little higher than I thought they would be. Is it even possible to build one for less than $900?
 

dhyde79

Titan Swapped / SAS'd
Founding Member
Location
Amarillo, TX
honestly, I'd be surprised if you can build one for under $1200 if you're using decent parts...you get what you pay for.
 

Cyclemut

Wheeling
Founding Member
Location
Morrison, CO
A lot less, but it's who you know.

My friend is a Sheriff's deputy in Summit County. He's getting me parts as they order them for the department. Officers are allowed to place personal orders when the department does, so he orders some stuff for himself and others. It helps the department get a further discount as well.

It will just take me longer to build if I do it this way. But in the end, around $600 or so for a good, solid rifle.
 

Cyclemut

Wheeling
Founding Member
Location
Morrison, CO
AR-15. I'm basically copying what he has done, I'm just waiting to order the same parts he has as they order more through the department. He's built just about every one of the ones in our little group, outfitting most of them through his side business.

He just bought a milling machine to continue to do a lot more work, custom stuff that he's wanted to do for a long time.

The discounts through a LEO are pretty good. There's a lot of FFL guys that can also get good deals, they just choose who they give them to. I like making a lot of friends, you never know who can do what.

But even he says that there's several guys that can do that similarly, you just have to look around.

Sorry, I'm babbling, had to take a percocet this evening.

ETA: Sorry, just saw that you guys were talking AR-10. I don't think I could touch one of those for cheap. But I know I'll ask!
 
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